Forum Etiquette

I would say that a good balance has been achieved here. There is some review going on, and I don't find it overbearing. I have really enjoyed reading some of the discussions. Sorry if this post seems a bit shallow, but I am trying to make more of an effort to contribute to these discussions.

@小虎，你很聪明了！ You made a great point about the cotton candy type posts. I am definitely guilty of that...geuss i just try to keep the mood positive on cpod. Also, because i am at a much lower level its harder to comment in Chinese. But i will challenge myslelf and try much harder to start posting it more in 中文。This is supposed to be a learning environment and i know that i need to push myself harder if i want to be fluent someday. Making mistakes is the way we learn and grow. 有志者事竟成！

@ Tvan, 我同意了！I think simply ignoring the trolls in the best way to combat them. Afterall, their whole point is to stir things up and get people distracted.

谢谢朋友们！

对 对 对

还可以又来了！

misterjess

可以说"多谢"

虎兄弟，

It's 母茶色 gracias, not 木丑色 gracias.

 Jess.

Hi xiaohu,

I'm a simple guy. I'm always happy when I hear other poddies say "Thanks, your posting is helpful", which encourages me to post the next one, haha. Let it be, as long as it is not a rude comment.

Hi xiaohu

As always you made a lot of good points. The last thing we need is for CPod's comment section to be a rubber-stamp rave machine for "the powers that be." But I think that we're striking a pretty good balance in welcoming criticism while deleting junk. Sounds like a Party slogan-- 求评抗废 perhaps.

As for the apparently empty comments that just praise CPod, the hosts, or a lesson, I would argue that they actually do serve a point-- turning "lurkers" into "posters." Looking at some of the more legendary posters, you might find that through shyness or just not having anything great to say (or as sebire notes, not knowing how to say it well) their first posts were pretty banal and cotton candyish. But as they see that the "Add comment" button won't bite them, they may start to post more frequently, and more substantively.

Of course, comments in Chinese are wonderful and obviously helpful for learning. We all enjoy reading them and learning from each other. But they're not the only valid form of comment.

Ignoring stupid comments or pushing them down on the list by adding your own as tvan suggests sounds like a great idea. Of course it's best for us to use deletion as a last resort. But if the comment veers into racism, sexist stuff or vulgarity, it will be deleted.

Everyone is welcome to send me or the other CPod folks (except Ken and Jenny, don't bother them) your suggestions of comments that are offensive via personal message. We may not make the same assessment, but at least we will be aware of something we otherwise would've missed.

If we've said it once, we've said it a million times-- the point of this site is learning Chinese. So let's get back to the forums, where your questions, comments and constructive criticism are at center stage.

Xiaohu has a point but there has to be limits. Ignoring inappropriate posts is the best weapon against them. When they get "out of hand" then "Pete the hammer" needs to step in. The real question is how do you define out of hand. There are published guidelines and I think people can be interesting and critical and still stay within them.

xiaohu, 不是每个人都比你写得好. e.g. it's just taken me half an hour to try and put that sentence together, and it's probably wrong. I'm not convinced that is necessarily helpful to other people unless someone actually corrects me (that's a hint, by the way :D) which is not necessarily the case all the time.

It's very difficult for a newbie to read a lot of posts that are in Chinese, and I don't think that they should not join in just because they can't read or write, or have insights into Chinese culture.

Hey 小虎, I think you add a lot to the learning environment here. I get a good sense of your humor and positive attitude, and I really appreciate that you write many of your posts in Chinese. I actually try to learn new 词 and syntax from what you and others post in Chinese. What I normally do is I cut and paste the Chinese posts that I don't understand, into one of the annotators that are on-line. For instance, I just read a funny comment in Chinese about how Pete should threaten women who don't think he is handsome. In the process, I learned the words 幽默 and 威胁 from that post.

I agree totally that nay-sayers are really important in any group, as they raise questions that would not otherwise be asked, they keep the dialog open, and they keep people honest. The same goes here. However, I am glad that Pete or someone else got rid of h......'s posts where he describes Chinese women he meets as "whores" and talks about their body parts. These comments are offensive and nobody learns any Chinese from them. Therefore, they should be excised like a 肿瘤 without a second thought. (That was my lame attempt to insert some Chinese into my post.) I think the comments you and Mr. Jess wrote were interesting and agree with you that they should have been retained. I would love to read them again right about now!

I definately feel that proper forum etiquette is a must and that users should, of their own accord, be mutually respectful of others. 

It's no secret that I love lively, spirited and intense debates.  I've seen and been a part of many, some of which have become heated, and I believe that's perfectly okay. One thing I don't like is censorship. I prefer an environment of freedom of expression.  I am not a fan of an environment that boxes us in, forcing us to conform to a limiting code of conduct. 

I am quite certain we are all of above average intelligence (the fact that we are learning Chinese is confirmation of that), and we are all pefectly capable of utilizing that intelligence to discern for ourselves which posts are helpful and which are simply Trogg fodder.

I think if someone posts a comment that comes across as rude or even confrontational, we are all able to bring our own personal freedoms into play and ignore that post.  We can even go so far as to exercise our freedom to ignore that user entirely.  But let's try to always keep it on a personal level, to allow for personal freedoms.  Why does "Big Brother" have to get involved?

Let us, as individuals solve our own problems.  If someone posts something that we feel is insulting, we have to keep in mind that it's just words.  Look deeper into what someone is saying, analyze whether or not it has validity, and if not, delete it from our personal memory banks, as it were.

Misterjess and I had posted quite a few responses to Paganfarmer, many of which were satirical and mocking in tone, meant to expose the fraud that Paganfarmer was.  In essence we took lemons and made lemonade.  Posting back and forth in Chinese, which, isn't that what the purpose of being here is?  To practice Chinese?

I personally don't have a problem if someone comes on here to vent or to rant.  If their posts are offensive in nature, we can always ignore it.

When Paganfarmer's posts were removed, so were all of our relevant and useful responses.

To me, the only thing that's offensive on these forums is users who don't make an effort to use them to further their language learning.  Those who come on here only to socialize.  Aren't there other forums with which to shoot the breeze?  Don't we have Myspace, Facebook, MSN, Skype etc?

I feel that we should utilize these forums in the way they were intended, to further our education in this language.  That can include posting language related questions or topics, answers to language related questions, responses to language related topics, links to language related articles and so forth. We can even shoot the breeze, but IN CHINESE or Pinyin (even Chinglish), but not in English or any language other than the target language we are all here to learn.

When I post, I always try to include something that's educational for others.  Even my silly mock-movie trailer post above was written in a way to, at least in some very small way, stimulate language learning.  Someone might see it and wonder what the Poddie character is saying, they may just actually take the time to look up a few words, and inadvertently learn how to say Helicopter 直升飞机, Notebook Computer 笔记本电脑, Delete 删除 among other useful words and phrases.  

In my opinion this is the very reason why this community was created.

I remember a user who went rogue (ahem... Dave), and posted a rant that eventually led to him being banned, but in the process, that rant got everyone talking.  Talking (IMHO) is something that's good for the community.

Also (IMHO), posting benign, sugar coated, blindly supportive posts can actually be the most destructive to our education. 

I constantly see users who ONLY post responses to lessons (always in English mind you, sometimes in SPANISH, and every once in a while in Spanglish), like:

"Great lesson Ken and Jenny, keep it up",

"I thought this lesson was even better than the last, great work guys!",

"Wow, I love this website, Ken and Jenny are such a great combo!",

"Great lesson John and Jenny, muchos gracias"...ect...etc...etc......

HOW IS THIS SUPPOSED TO HELP THE COMMUNITY TO LEARN CHINESE?

I challenge you all to look at EVERY lesson comments board and you'll see at least 30% of the posts are exactly like those that I've written above.

You can click and look at the profiles of those who post these type of comments, and see that 80% or more of their posts are all like that.

Alternately, these same users can post this way: 我觉得这节课非常有用，谢谢 Ken 和 Jenny.

Or like this: Wo hen ai zhe ge wang zhan, ke cheng yue lai yue hao.

Or for extra credit: Ken and Jenny wǒ zhī chí nǐ , jiā yóu!

Even something simple and imperfect is okay, that's how we learn.  Not to sound like a tired cliche' factory...but... you do have to start somewhere, and we do learn from mistakes.

As long as the posts are in Chinese.  Or as long as it adds some kind of educational value.

Yes, I too am very fond of Chinesepod.  I've posted countless times how much I love this website, but I feel that if you're not going to post something that's helpful to our Chinese education, then why are you posting in the first place? 

Can you imagine if 100% of the lesson comments were these type of Cotton Candy posts?  The comments section would be completely worthless, absolutely devoid of educational content.  Just a exercise in praising the great minds behind Chinesepod, but not fully utilizing the tools they've given us to bring about the realization of a common goal, the goal of learning Mandarin Chinese. 

The community is here so we can all learn from each other!

I feel strongly that we are all capable of just ignoring the Troggs and their worthless rantings, and keeping our minds focused on what we came here for.

小虎

Good, he/she made some racist comments that I'm surprised were allowed to stay on there as long as they did.

In the future, how do we complain about a user if we're offended?

Until the posts are deleted, I would suggest that nobody comment... or, comment on other posts until the offending posts drop down.  You do the community a service and move up on the "Most Active Posters" list at the same time. ;-)

I would have done it today, but was too busy at work.

Pete, thank you for deleting some of h......'s voluminous and distracting threads today. I think his greatest fault lies not in the offensive nature of his posts, but in his belief that we actually care about what he thinks. Was it just me, or did others also find his mid-life crisis to be really boring? Call a waaah-mbulance, but don't post your whining here. I log on to the community board here to learn from others who know a heck of a lot more Chinese than I do.

I must say, I really enjoy and learn from your posts, as well as those of others such as 长夜, 小虎, henning, 等. I also really appreciate the good citizens, such as calkins and goulniky, who must spend quite a bit of their own time making learning interesting and enjoyable for the rest of us.

After a month and a half, I know how I like to use CPod. However, I think some new and trial users may find the creepy posts to be off-putting. CPod would probably lose users if superfluous and repulsive posts are allowed to proliferate here unchecked.

Thanks, Pete, for the open communication regarding this somewhat delicate subject of forum etiquette. No one at CPod has directly addressed the community regarding this. As a long time subscriber, I have seen most of those trolls Henning mentioned come and go and gladly so. Cultivating a community of mutually respectful and enthusiastic learners takes some pruning. I am glad to see you pruning.

I feel that spirited discussions and  debates are good, often they help to bring clarity. But, nonsensical comments and insulting posts are just unnecessary and really only serve to dampen the generally congenial spirit of this wonderful community. I for one don't miss them.

Hi all

Thanks for the vote of confidence. The warm community is what really sets CPod apart. But I don't need to tell you that.

I'll pass along your idea for a museum or hall of shame. But I don't know about the feasibility of such a thing, as we generally focus all our resources on bringing the poddies new content. In the words of 小平同志：　一切往前（钱）看

Hi babababardwan

Has it only been two weeks? One minute I'm running through the achingly beautiful Taroko Gorge, the next minute I'm fighting off troggers with both hands. Sounds like the start of a Bond movie.

The good news is that as of Monday the CPod team will be more complete, including a fresh new face...

Hi xiaohu

You live in the LA area and you don't have a movie deal? With that kind of writing I might finally be convinced to pay for a theater ticket!

pearltowerpete

By the way, I love Henning's idea of a C-pod museum.  回忆往事

bababardwan

Thanks!  I'm glad you liked it.  There's more to come!

Yeah thanks for clamping down on these idiots Pete! I was wondering how long you were going to let PF get away with that stuff. There was no value in that persons posts so getting rid of it entirely was the right decision. Now I think bababardwan had a really good idea...about only allowing paid users to post comments.

I think that would definitely weed out the troggs from the trolls...err i mean sheep from the goats!!

Thanks Pete for taking out the trash !

Thanks Pete - I am pleased she's gone. Some of pigfarmers comments were such and writen in such a way that they were unpleasant to read and, to a certain extent, have recently overshadowed some of the comments section. The Chinesepod community creates a great learning and sharing tool. Thanks for helping to keep it that way.

Thanks Pete. No objection here.

RJ

can't recall reading any of these troggelucubrations, but this case of ruling by example reminded me of that 18-years jail sentence for ma(i)d attacks in Malaysia. Not that I would object to this type of deterrent :

A former Malaysian flight attendant who repeatedly scalded her Indonesian maid has been jailed by a court in the capital Kuala Lumpur for 18 years. full story...

xiaohu,

lol;very funny.Your piece just got better as it went on.I loved the climax 再见...BABY! which was reminiscent of the Terminators "hasta la vista,baby".You'll have to write more such scripts for our entertainment.Thanks.

In a forum taken over by rogues and troggs, in a time when the very sovereignty of poddies was at a stake, when userposts digressed from profanity ...into pure insanity!!!  ONE FORUM ADMIN, finally had the courage to fight back! 

Pete: GET TO THE CHOPPER!

Poddie 1: 直升飞机，在 Praxis 的办公室里边？

Pete: The security of the forum has been compromised, we must destroy this infected network before it takes control of the poddie-nation!

Poddie: 可是把她的留言删除掉的话，会摧毁我的杰作啊！

Pete: Listen to me...we've got to get out of here!  There are Pagan Farmers everywhere, and the Troggs are closing in.  I'm going to blow the systems...NOW! 

Poddie: 哎呦，那个笔记本电脑可贵了！两百多块人民币啊！

Pete: Forget it, we can't save it, there's no time!  GET DOWN NOW!  Ha-gah, g...g...ggg...ah!!!

(Poddie hits the deck )

Poddie: 呦，我的脚踢在地板上了！

(Angle in for dramatic close-up)

Pete: 再见...BABY!

(Pete hits the master delete button, blowing Paganfarmers insolent words into the Recycle Bin forever)

This Thanksgiving, if... you're... Pagan... don't... start... plowing!

;) 

Pete,

I hope you've got some rest coming on the horizon.What a week hey? Workmates away ,and spammers/trolls/troggers go rampant.Just wanted to say you've done a great job holding the fort and 'ave a good weekend mate.:)

Henning,

Great idea.I'd love to check out some of the stuff I've missed out on.I'm not feeling optimistic on this one though somehow.Fair enough.

I still think a "museum.chinesepod" site would be cool - with all the old Saturday shows, the old Advanced lessons (Factory girl!), Word on the Street, a Lantian memorial, an area for the old lesson arts and why not...

...a section on "Forum monstrosities". Here you could archive all the deleted threads of kitty, pageanfarmer, Dave, mad Ed, angry Karen, and all the rest (parental guidance stongly suggested for sequences of intense action and violence).

Hi xiaohu

I think you probably saw it all in the past few days. It's just too bad it won't be around for people to see later on.

And yes, we deleted everything Paganfarmer ever wrote. Unlike some people who start out good and then go rogue, Paganfarmer never added to the discussion.

Wow, too bad I missed the party.  I would have loved to see Misterjess's sharp and on target commentary.

pearltowerpete

So what happened, you just deleted EVERYTHING that Paganfarmer ever posted?

Hi misterjess

I'm sorry if we got anything of yours. It was not intentional. Your comments are sharp and on target.

Hi changye

We are always searching for that 中庸之道 between smashing dissent and becoming a madhouse.

yeah ok but pete, ya blew up some of my best work in the process.

The CCP is quicker in action than Cpod is.