Englished out!
miantiao
January 03, 2009, 09:28 AM posted in General Discussion大家好
A new colleague of mine recently returned from a five year stint studying in the U.S. He's from Guangdong provence and speaks three Chinese languages and dialects. His English is excellent. In a discussion with him concerning language aquisition and motivating students he made a very interesting point regarding language environment which I also use as an anecdote when students complain about their pace of English language aquisition.
He said that during his five years in the U.S he made a point of making friends with locals rather than seeking a comfort zone with other Chinese students. He had noticed upon arrival in the U.S other Chinese students that had been studying there for two or three years had not much to show in regards spoken English ability. Point being that one can be given a great opportunity to improve, but one must also make the effort to take advantage of it.
Given the fact that not many people in English speaking nations learn Mandarin, let alone from such a young age as many of the locals here in China learn English, competition to practice would be negligible as compared to a native English speaker trying to improve spoken Mandarin in China.
I had one guy with sweat streaming down his face blurting out indecipherable dribble at the pace of Phar Lap and not listening to a word in English I was saying to him because he was too busy trying to figure out his next onslaught. I then spoke to him in Mandarin and he subsequently made his apologies and walked away.
Over to you
pretzellogic
January 14, 2009, 12:06 AMkatherine0812,
Just so you know, i've decided that given my priorities and limited time, i'm sacrificing learning characters to devote what limited time I have to studying spoken Mandarin. I don't even have the software on my computer to start writing characters. That's primarily why I don't write characters. You are of course correct that it would help my mandarin immensely to write, and I only know about 30 characters as it is. This is only going to come back to haunt me, as it's starting to look more like I will head back to China sooner than I anticipated.....
sushan
January 03, 2009, 01:44 PMSure, there are many who have lived in China for years and don't speak it, though they can't help pick up some listening ability. Re the immigrants, a balance is needed - you need to have some kind of comfort zone and your own compatriots are an invaluable source of support in your new country. However, if you never have local friends you will never completely adapt.
The thing is, 'friendships' born from mutual desire to learn the other's language, like these language exchange relationships, very seldom turn into real friendships - they are too based on intense self interest. Much better to make real friends based on people's qualities and interests and let the language come as it will naturally.
pretzellogic
January 04, 2009, 04:16 AMI think the willingness to sound stupid at first when speaking another language has to be overcome. I know that once I was willing to get over my shyness, I started doing more things by myself, and less on my lifelines. That took about 6 months. At least when I was traveling in China, there were plenty of times when I had to travel by myself out of the country, and learned some good travel sentences/phrases. But then I would come back home to Lanzhou, and lean on my fluent mandarin speaking wife to order dinner and talk with our ayi.
changye
January 04, 2009, 05:35 AMMost of my Chinese friends and colleagues speak good Japanese, i.e. my native tongue. I think their Japanese have been getting better and better, probably partly owing to me, who is always happy to talk to them in Japanese. The problem is, of course, that I don't fully exploit the advantage of being living in China.....hehe.
light487
January 04, 2009, 06:15 AMI'll be in Chengdu towards the end of March.. :)
miantiao
January 04, 2009, 06:20 AMpatmetheny, changye,
Confidence is definitely needed in order to improve. I really don't mind making grammatical errors or sounding somewhat childish at times, particularly if my conversation partner, out of the goodness of their heart, corrects me.
Being corrected regularly helps with fluency, the ability to be understood, and avoids bad habits becoming ingrained. I guess if one is working here and is not a formal student, it would be a great idea to invest in some private lessons a couple of times a week to iron out any bad habits.
The language ability to meet the requirements of everyday needs doesn't take long to learn. However, for those that have goals beyond such requirements, a formal tutor is invaluable.
pretzellogic
January 06, 2009, 04:02 AMmiantiao, no argument with you on those points.
light487, miantiao, you guys seem like you're young enough to go to China unencumbered with a spouse, children and existing careers. If there is no job to force you to China, let alone fluent mandarin, then good on you for being able to make mandarin learning a priority, and taking proactive measures to ensure you learn it to a high level. Not everyone on this site is in such a position.
miantiao
January 06, 2009, 05:08 AMpatmetheny,
you are making assumptions ole mate! ok, i'll let out some info about meself. I'm 40, was a soldier and then a sub-contract bricklayer, went to uni during my subbie days and majored history and mandarin, spent 10 months in taiwan on scholarship back in 98. graduated and then said goodbye to my chinese and continued subbying because i had a house to pay for and a child and wife to support. i've been here a year and a half. all of what i forgot i quickly picked up in the first year. i've given bricklaying the flick because i no longer need it and,well, life is short and i want to pursue my own interests. i self study, pity i still have to make a living!
light487
January 06, 2009, 07:19 AMI enjoy learning stuff.. always have.. I spend all my spare time learning rather than watching TV or playing sports or whatever it is other people, who are not spending all their time learning, do.
I've been here for just over 9 months and learning Chinese simply because I want to and I enjoy it.. no other reasons. May be in the next few years I will become an English teacher in China but that's not why I am learning, nor why I am putting so much time into it..
For example, yesterday I was sitting on the train to work and I was reading my Chinese language textbook and I saw the characters 生日. I didn't immediately recognise this as meaning "birthday" even though I've seen it a bunch of times but I knew the second character was rì and based on my knowledge of characters, though I should have immediately identified 生, I knew that the first character should sound-like sheng.. anyway.. my brain put 2 and 2 together and I recognised it as shēngrì. Anyway.. the point of this is that I got a big kick out of this realisation.. it wasn't that I knew what 生日 was or that I recognised the actual characters (eventually).. it was that I was able to use my, limited, knowledge to "work out" what the sound of the first character would be (rather than the meaning) and then from there I worked out that it meant "birthday".
miantiao
January 03, 2009, 11:04 AMwell, if you ever find yourself in the Chengdu neighbourhood and need a hand with anything give us a yell mate.
pretzellogic
January 07, 2009, 02:41 PMmiantiao, then you and I are in similar situations, except for the Army, bricklaying, my 2 small kids, and a different major at university. For me, Mandarin studies started after I dated my now wife, and she made it clear that I would have to go to China for a year so that she could finish her studies. It's been a fantastic adventure....
katherine0812
January 12, 2009, 05:43 PMHi,guys
Why didn't you write your views with chinese characters？And then share them here
I think it's also a Good way to learn Chinese,by this way，you just could learn much more directly ，isn't it?
呵呵
urbandweller
January 12, 2009, 08:47 PM你好Wendy,
That would be great BUT many of us (including myself) cannot speak conversational Chinese yet. Meaning that i am not able to write whole paragraphs and express myself entirely in chinese. So i do the best i can by writing or speaking in short sentences or dialogues.
But maybe you can help us out with that! 谢谢! :)
katherine0812
January 13, 2009, 02:09 AM你好 Urbandweller:)
Yep，maybe I can help you
Because my Chinese isn't bad than yours':)
Anyway，you should try your best to speak out，to use it as possible as you can. Communicate with each other,then the others may notice your mistakes while you are using it,and then correct them for you during your conversion at the same time
Even，at the very beginning，you could try to use Pin yin while communicating instead Chinese characters，it works，Chinese isn't hard at all
By the way,do you have QQ number? Most Chinese people use QQ ,I just suggest you to apply one,I have my own QQ too.And use it to practice Chinese online with native Chinese or Chinese speaking people.However,each language learning needs practices，doesn’t it？
Following,I give you a sentence which created by myself呵呵：
The more you practiced，the more mistakes you made，and meanwhile the more new characters you get
'Lian4 xi2 de1 yue4 duo1 练习的越多'
'fan4 de1 cuo4 wu4 jiu4 yue4 duo1 犯的错误就越'
'yu2 ci3 tong2 shi2与此同时'
'xue2 dao4 de1 xin1 han4 zi4 ye3 jiu4 yue4 duo1 学到的新汉字也就越多'
At last，Welcome to share your methods on studying
Good luck:)
miantiao
January 13, 2009, 02:27 AMkatherine0812
我的QQ号码296149520 鳄鱼。我支持你所说的意见，可是，来这里的同学，中文级别都不一样，所以说有时候全用中文不方便，再说不合适，比如，初级同学请问说明单词的意思或者用法，全用汉字可没用。不过，想跟我用中文多联系的话，你现在可以通过QQ，很高兴跟你聊聊
katherine0812
January 13, 2009, 03:05 AMmiantiao，你好
Your Chinese is much more excellent than me，your writing is so fluent，admire you~~
我的QQ号码是358373664，呵呵
欢迎切磋。呵呵
alexlxj
January 13, 2009, 06:40 AMHi,Unbandweller,if you want to learn Chinese,you can connect with me,MSN,alex-lxj@hotmail.com.I just want to improve my English.Thank you.
alexlxj
January 13, 2009, 09:25 AMHelp each other
pearltowerpete
January 06, 2009, 07:48 AMHi light487
Neat story. I've looked for pleasure in a lot of different ways, but nothing can match the feeling of using your brain to figure something out.
I believe the pleasure we experience when learning is an evolutionary advantage that has kept humanity innovating through the centuries. The results of our innovations may not always be so great, but there's a deep, animal thrill that comes with making a discovery.
light487
January 03, 2009, 10:37 AMYup.. one of the reasons I am going to China by myself without any life-lines, other than a handful of cell numbers in case I get lost, is to force myself to use Mandarin. I am quite capable of using the language even in Sydney.. plenty of opportunities but because it's uncomfortable and the chance of embarrassment is quite high, I hardly ever use it.