what you think of chairman Maozedong
lovveu
January 21, 2009, 02:05 AM posted in General DiscussionDo you know this man? And what's your opinion to him?
miantiao
January 21, 2009, 04:33 AM1949年至1978年因老毛先生而中国退步，并没出现任何良的事情。这里没有空完整的说明，不过，只要看文化大革命和所谓 ‘伟大跨越’（？）这两个疯狂政策，有多少人因这两个政策而死亡呢？是无可数的。韩国内战的时候，中国牺牲多少男少年？200万左右。长征故事被扁了好听也，其实长征算是失败的兵法活动。极权主义就是他政治观念，毫无反对他思想的余地。
我建议你慢慢读关于他的一本传纪，但是在中国却买不到。关于日本人平常被中国批评改写历史，还是先看自己的家，再往外批评更好。
pearltowerpete
January 21, 2009, 05:31 AMHi miantiao
Great Leap Forward 叫“大跃进，” 实在是一件很悲惨的事情。The Korean War is 援朝抗美战争， the War to Assist North Korea and Resist America.
一般我们说某人的意识形态比较极端，而不是积极 （proactive).
Churchill (this time, it really is him ;-) said it best,
"Democracy is the worst system of government, except all those others that have been tried." The main problem here is accountability. A leader who did so much to drive his country into ruin is now on all the paper money. What incentive is there for anyone to do a good job?
miantiao
January 21, 2009, 05:51 AMpete
没错。
大跃进时候实的确很悲惨，根据数据至少30百万人民饿死，但我怀疑数据估计跟事实差得离谱。
还有， 呵呵，我还没被洗脑，我倒是要持续用 “韩国内战”。
changye
January 21, 2009, 01:02 PM“多亏”有了毛泽东，中国被耽误了三十年，到了1978年才开始所谓改革开放。但是，中国浪费将近三十年时间对世界各国来说并不是坏事。中国人民敲锣打鼓轰麻雀的时候，一部分国家趁机先富了起来。毛泽东把中国崛起推迟了很久，我认为这可以算是巨大功劳。中国百姓很敬爱毛主席，而且外国人也很“感谢”这位伟大的革命家。毛泽东先生太幸福了！
lovveu
January 22, 2009, 05:09 AM那你们如何看待“邓小平”呢？
miantiao
January 22, 2009, 05:40 AM要是没有邓小平远观，就没有新中国。不过，讲邓小平成就也要讲错误，我看就有一个，天安门。
lovveu
January 21, 2009, 04:05 AMwhy
miantiao
January 22, 2009, 05:57 AM长夜
historians should aim to be as objective as possible. However the very nature of history limits objectivity.The empirical evidence an historiographer seeks will be used to support his or her subjective hypothesis as to the reasons why certain continuities and discontinuities exist or ceased to exist.
changye
January 22, 2009, 06:07 AMHi miantiao,
I know what you'd like to say, but government-imposed guidelines/ristrictions are completely another story. "Conclusion-first" approach is just nonsense.
lovveu
January 22, 2009, 07:18 AMIn your opinion, Is today's china communism or capitalism ？
miantiao
January 22, 2009, 08:04 AM现在可说中国是钟所谓 ‘资本达尔文主义' 的国家。实说，中国特征社会主义真的很特别，就是因为这种社会主义无法解释。像老子说明的 ’道‘ 一模一样，道可道，非常道，明可明， 非常明， 呵呵， 接着中国特征社会主义是说不出的、看不见的、摸不到的、无法描绘的，所以说我们都知道它存在着却不知道是什么东西。
changye
January 22, 2009, 08:04 AMPolitically speaking, China is the perfect communist state that people in democratic countries generally envision. Economically speaking, China is the worst capitalist state that Marx probably envisioned a long time ago. Don't take it seriously, it's just a joke.
changye
January 22, 2009, 01:29 PM伟大领袖毛主席也犯了一个严重"错误"，就是他没有开除邓小平党籍。英雄识英雄，其实毛泽东高度评价邓小平这个修正主义分子的实力，同时也认为彻底打败邓小平对中国未来发展并不有利。毛泽东还是很聪明，过去三十年的历史就证明他的政治判断根本没错。没有共产党就没有新中国，没有邓小平就没有“恭喜发财”。
changye
January 22, 2009, 05:45 AMHi miantiao,
Fabricating history favorably is inherent to autocratic states such as China and Korea. It's inevitable. So I don't care much about their "nicely-interpreted" modern history of China. Anyway, not many people would take it at face value, unless you are too naive or an idiot, haha.
The real problem lies in the fact that the PRC has recently been trying to make historians follow the "guidelines" set by the Communist Party EVEN WHEN scholars study ancient history of China, not only Qing dynasty but also historic events of more than one thousand years ago.
For example, several years ago, the Chinese authories began to insist that 高句丽 (Goguryeo, 37 B.C.- 668 A.D) and 渤海国 (Bohai, 698 - 926 A.D.) were not independent countries, but were merely local governmens within Chinese territory. Chinese historians must follow this "guideline".
Korean governments and peoples get angry about this change, since 高句丽 and 渤海 have long been regarded as independent countries that were established by "great Korean ancestors". In a sense, both ancient countries are a kind of "national pride" in the Korean Peninsula.
I guess that the new interpretation has something to do with the international dispute surrounding North Korea. Maybe the CCP wants to create the impression that the ancient Korean-led countries were historically part of China, and to justify future intervention into North Korea, perhaps.
I don't know which claim is academically right, but anyway, I believe that the study of history must be carried out subjectively, but neither politically nor nationalistically. History is one of the few selling points of the PRC, but I must say that historical science in China is on the verge of death.
P/S.
If the claim by the CCP is right, ironically enough, you could say that Sui dynasty (隋朝) was overthrown partly due to the wars with their own local government, 高句丽, in 618. I think this is also a rather unfavorable interpretation for the CCP, considering the current political situation in China.
miantiao
January 21, 2009, 03:40 AM万年臭名罢了