You must learn from context
kencarroll
February 23, 2009, 02:42 AM posted in General DiscussionThat's what I beleive. The idea informs much of how we design ChinesePod lessons. More details here, including some secrets never before revelaed.
RJ
February 23, 2009, 10:48 AMKen
Well said. Context is everything. Once I use language in a real situation, I own it. And pragmatics, so hard to explain sometimes, but so easy to "feel". You're on the right track.
kencarroll
February 23, 2009, 03:26 PMPragmatics are notoriously difficult to explain because its all vague and intangible. (Try explaining to a child what context is - I just tried to explain it to my 9 year -old!) Nonetheless it is an essential part of what we do here, so I've tried to make it coherent in the blog post.
John
February 24, 2009, 09:19 AMContent is king, but context is the throne, eh? :)
Context is a really complex subject, and it often attracts the overly-philosophical types. Good to keep it down to earth.
daizi
February 24, 2009, 06:11 PMLet's take this metaphor to its logical conclusion (and I tried to keep it down-to-earth, John):
King: context (just sits there and dictates)
Queen: comprehensible input (powerful, and can strike from anywhere at any time)
Bishop: background knowledge (allows one to look at things obliquely)
Knight: pragmatics (the action end of context, doing the King's bidding)
Rook: grammar (necessary but not very flexible)
Pawn: repetition (there are many of them and they all look the same)
kencarroll
February 25, 2009, 08:37 AMDaizi,
I love this:
'King: context (just sits there and dictates)'
Great analogies.
bababardwan
February 25, 2009, 10:31 AMKen,
I read with much interest your blog post and especially the linked article on how to avoid becoming a fluent fool.An excellent article and such a good point.I'd love to get a lot more insights along these lines.Not only am I very interested in Chinese culture [and I think the popularity of the DA show demonstrates that I'm not alone here and you're preaching to the converted] but particularly interested in the way Chinese think about things and the deeper reasons behind their way of thinking.But while deepening one's cultural understanding is so important,particularly for emigrants if they are to lessen the likelihood of culture shock or at least mitigate it,this does not of course imply that such an emigrant would instantly abandon the culture from which they've come.So this leads me to a question I have for you ,and other westerners now permanently residing in China.My question reminds me a tad of your lesson on Language Power Struggle.You could call this a question about culture power struggle.Now of course many of the cultural differences are going to be embraced with much enthusiasm and joy.But there are going to be times I'm sure when there is a fundamental difference in your approach to something,that will go beyond the "when in Rome" unwritten rule.Also even in one's own culture I don't believe in being a sheep and just going along with everything so I'm also interested in stories/anecdotes about freedom of individuality and what level of individuality is tolerated in China [my impression is that the mindset is very much more about the harmony of all,and much less about the individual].But I have a specific instance in mind.Forgive my limited understanding of the instance I have in mind,but it is this: We all know that Chinese value humility and have a different way of accepting complements to westerners.Charming.Also,one is thus meant to treat a complement in the same way.Fair enough.For me the dilemma comes when Chinese people compliment you about your kids in front of them.I have heard Chinese people refer to their highly intelligent university graduates as subnormal.This sounds strange to western ears,but my take on it is [and correct me if I'm wrong] that the families are so close and that they see their kids as an extension of themselves and thus believe in demonstrating humility.But what to do when a Chinese person compliments you about your kids in front of them? On the one hand you could do as they do and deny it.On the other hand though,if one denies that ones young child [ who is old enough to understand what is being said ] is pretty ,or bright ,or whatever,then what effect will this have on their self esteem,particularly if they are not raised in the Chinese culture ? So I'm basically interested in what degree westerners assimilate ,and what degree of difference is tolerated.
RJ
February 25, 2009, 11:15 AMbababardwan,
Studying other cultures helps one to realize that many of the things we hold sacred are merely arbitrary choices. It allows you to stand back and have a better understanding of yourself. There is no right or wrong sometimes, just different. It would be a better world I think if everyone understood this. Unfortunately there are many "sheep" in every society. Learning the other culture also insures that you will not misunderstand someones intentions. This too can be explained to your kids, either before or after an experience as you have described so however you choose to respond, it should not have a negative effect on them. Kids are smarter than you think. I find some of the differences refreshing and others mildly troubling, but none of them are wrong. They are all opportunites for reflection and growth.
bababardwan
February 25, 2009, 11:33 AMRJ,
Thanks for your input and many excellent points.I'm a great advocate for empowering one's kids and explaining everything to them before and after situations so couldn't agree with you more on that one.But at what point do you decide you are doing something just to fit in to the culture,and at what point do you decide ,look there's no offense intended here but I'm just not going along with that to indulge your feelings/take on things.There are other considerations here.[Good communication can often be a key to sorting out misunderstandings that arise,but if one ads in a lack of fluency,then there are going to be times when a decision has to be made,recognising that it may be misunderstood]. But I agree that travel and exposure to other cultures and ways of thinking can be very enlightening and also enhance self knowledge.What do others do when their kids are complimented?
mark
February 23, 2009, 06:18 AMI think I have benefitted greatly from CPod's philosophy of teaching language. Unfortunately, I don't have an easy to understand and quantifiable way to describe the benefit.