More Advanced Sentence Analysis....

Can you post examples of such tricky sentences here? Maybe we can analyze them. One thing written Chinese seems to do occasionally is to pack a lot of subclauses into sentences, whereas in English those would usually be turned inside out. For instance: 这是被科学家发现的第一个完全没有恒星的星系 In English you wouldn't construct a sentence like "This is the by-scientists-discovered first entirely-without-stars galaxy". To analyze this sentence, you have to see that the core is: 这是...一个...星系 ("this is a galaxy") The above example is fairly straightforward, but sometimes you get sentences that are much more convoluted. It can help to simplify and mentally cross out entire adjectival subclauses and say, aha, here's the noun that matches that measure word, here's the object that corresponds to the verb I encountered forty characters ago. :) Anyways, go ahead and post one of the trick sentences and maybe some of the folks here can help figure it out.

Hey thanks. Could it be that 才能 is a noun? Although I do like your explanation, Henning, of 能 as a verb. Then the sentence makes more sense to me.

By the way: aeflow, where did you get that example from? A galaxy without stars??? "Dark matter galaxy" or what?

Another example from the last Advanced show: 双方本着互利互惠、共同发展的原则，经充分协商，决定联合出资建立兴旺贸易公司，特订立本协议。 Commas in Chinese sentences always scare me. They seem to indicate: "Harharhar, a lot of build up, now go ahead and try to localize the verb"

OK, no need to answer my galaxy question. Example & answer are right here: http://www.oursci.org/news/2005/022502.htm

Speaking of commas, when I first started reading it actually took me a while to realize that there were two types of commas in Chinese: the kind that separates clauses (the usual ",") and the kind that is used for enumeration: "、". Eg: 运城、临汾、晋城三市 the three cities Yuncheng, Linfen, Jincheng [in Shanxi].

I think the first sentence is sort of structured like "Shanxi province has already established X group, now heading to three cities to supervise X activity", where X = "attack the bad guys and save the good guys". The second sentence is about "Cultural Learnings of Both Parties for Make Benefit Glorious Trading Company"... or something like that. :)

Both sides/parties (双方) in accordance with the principle of X (本着 X 的 原则), after/as a result of (经) much consultation (充分 协商) decided... to found... a company (决定...建立...公司) concluded (订立) this (本) agreement (协议) Details: it's a jointly funded trading company, and X is something flowery about mutual benefit and development/growth, with the "、"-style comma in the middle. Remember the "、"-style comma doesn't split things into separate clauses, in some ways it's sort of just a synonym for "and".

PS, if by any chance you're into astronomy: http://www.astron.sh.cn/

The advice I've been given for clauses is to look for a subject (possibly implied) main verb and object (possibly implied) within the clause. So, 山西省(subject)成立 (verb)...主(object) implied 主 (subject) 解救 (verb)...民工 implied 主 (subject) .. 行动 (verb) 领导组 (object) implied 主 (subject) 分赴 (verb) 运城、临汾、晋城三市 (object - list of three cities) and so on. Actually, I kind of get lost at this point.

One example for a sentence I struggled with in the last Media episode on those slave based brick kilns: 山西省已成立“打击黑窑主，解救被拐骗民工”专项行动领导组，目前分赴运城、临汾、晋城三市，对“打击黑窑主，解救被拐骗民工”专项行动进行督察指导 Actually I believe it is important to have a step by step breakdown of such sentences rather than a complete translation - to identify the design patterns behind them. Maybe a community based approach would indeed work, e.g. a "Sentence not Understood - help breaking it down" section in the Forum (that is open for all levels).

Thanks everyone! I am still not certain about that last part: 对“打击黑窑主，解救被拐骗民工”专项行动进行督察指导 Who plays the subject for that part? Still 山西省? Or the "X group" introduced in the part before? And do I see it correctly they 指导 the 督察? Or do they both 督察 *and* 指导?

OK, I used my secret weapon. It is 督察 *and* 指导 and the relevant subject is 领导组.

Anyway: I think this discussion explains what I am talking about. Ken asked for ideas for additional premium content. This could be one, coudn't it? The "sentence [deconstruction] of the week"? Is anyone besides me interested in such content?

Yes, I think sentence deconstruction would be an interesting service.

yes, indeed, it would. Just read a sentence in the expansion of the job inteview lesson. Does not make sense to me. Let me find it and I'll see if somebody out there can help me with it...

Here it is: 身为一个优秀的领导者，必须知道如何才能最大限度地发挥团队的作用。 (As an outstanding leader, one must know how to put the team's abilities to the greatest use.) The xiandu throws me completely.

Let me give it a try: Part 1: 身为 一个 领导者 Identified as a [X] leader. the [X] decorates the leader, as seen from the 的 x= 优秀的 There is an implied "if [one wants to become]" in front of this part. Part 2: 必须知道 如何 (才)能 [Y] one must know how (才 "just how"--> emphasis) one can With [Y] = [Z] 发挥 团队的作用 unleash the teams abilities the 地 glues the phrase before to the verb: 最大限度地 this is the how you want to unleash: "in a most-big-limit fashion" = at the highest limit

Very often Google can be a useful tool: just search for a given phrase and look at the sample sentences from the search results. Searching for "最大限度地" gives sentences like: 如何最大限度地提高GoogleAdSense 收入 在现有法律框架内最大限度地减少死刑 etc. It seems to be used in the sense of "to the utmost; as much as possible".

The stuff within the quotes is "attack rogue kiln owners, rescue abducted workers", but the whole thing functions as a kind of adjective. Sort of like: The city of New York came up with an "I love New York" advertising campaign to promote tourism. I think the object of 成立 would be "组", no?