Confusion: Very - hen or hao?

kip64
April 16, 2009, 08:40 PM posted in General Discussion

When do you use 好and when do you use 很? Or are they interchangeable? Is there a difference in meaning of for instance 好美 or 很美?

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lotsofwordsandnospaces
April 16, 2009, 10:01 PM

No pro but here is what I do...I try and use 好 to mean good as in this example:

好久 - hǎojiǔ - A 'good' while (quite a while)
It is like saying very in a round about way. For anything that I really mean 'Very' I would then use 很. 
好美 might elicit the right response, but I assume the listener would have to take the meaning from the context rather than it just making sense. Hope this helps - and I hope someone corrects me if I am miles off!

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tvan
April 17, 2009, 02:19 AM

lotsofwordsandabsolutelypositivelynodamnspaces, sounds like a reasonable rule for us English speakers, at least the ones that haven't progressed to dreaming in Chinese.  It seems to me that when 好 is used in place of 很, the meanings are pretty close.  Still, these direct translation tricks usually fall short.  For example, what about 好坏?  It seems like context is still king but, like you, I will wait for the time change for the authoritative answer.  

P.S. - Nciku gives one of the definitions of as "very."

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zhenlijiang
April 17, 2009, 03:08 AM

hmm yes, translating into english is tricky isn't it; the difference seems to get lost in the process.

i would say 这个蓝色好美 to tell whomever i'm talking to how i feel:  i think this shade of blue is so beautiful. maybe even take it further, to mean that i can't get over how beautiful this blue is.  whereas 这个蓝色很美 could mean "this blue is beautiful" or "this blue is very beautiful" but does not seem to convey, w/out further context anyway, much else.

nciku's definitions 5-7 for this entry are the key i think.

in my understanding, 好 expresses the speaker's subjective pov in a way 很 does not. and 很 of course often means "very" but often means nothing in a sentence, many times it's the default adv there only because you need it to make even a simple sentence like 我很忙。 complete.

with the others before me, waiting for the experts to come to the rescue!

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calkins
April 17, 2009, 01:26 PM

As if you weren't already confused, this is from an online study.  Doesn't add a whole lot of insight (examples would've been beneficial), but it's interesting nonetheless.



好's functions are divided into three levels:

  1. The ideational level
  2. The textual level
  3. The interactional level


At the ideational level, 好 serves as an adjective with a positive evaluative meaning, or as a degree adverb that enhances the degree of its following adjective or adverb.

As an adjective, 好 has the following functions:

  1. Positively evaluating something
  2. Comparison between objects/things (indicating the better one of them)
  3. Referring to healthy condition
  4. Closeness/intimacy
  5. Indicating the purpose of doing something (the action of A facilitates B)
  6. An intensifier modifying the following noun
  7. Finishing something


Among them, functions 2 - 6 develop from 好's core meaning of positive evaluation, as indicated in function 1.

Function 7 also originates from such essence meaning of 好.

Also, as a degree adverb, 好 has the function of enhancing the degree of its following adjective or adverb.  

Since 好 as a degree adverb and 很 'very' are parallel in meaning, both of the two words serve as degree adverbs and seem to be interchangeable in actual use.  

好 is generally assumed to be able to be substituted for 很, but that the occurrence of 好 and 很 is inclined to be in complementary distribution as they respectively co-occur with 喔, a sentence-final particle, of both rising and falling intonations.  In other words, 好 is used with 喔 of a falling intonation, while 很 with 喔 of a rising intonation.

There is an exception, however, that 很 is allowed to occur with 喔 of a falling intonation when it appears in an interrogative form. The explanation for 好 and 很's complementary distribution might be relevant with the current speaker's focus of talk, as well as the informative function of a rising intonation.

At the textual and interactional level, 好 is realized as a discourse marker that has a procedural meaning rather than a propositional one.  Specifically, 好 at the textual level serves as a closure marker, indicating the completeness of a verbal activity or the conclusion of something.  This discourse function emerges from the seventh function of 好 as an adjective, as mentioned above, and then develops into its transition function by which both prior and next-positioned utterances of talk are connected.

Next, at the interactional level, 好 performs the functions of establishing, maintaining, prolonging, or breaking the punctual relationship between interlocutors, and its interactional functions are thus subcategorized as follows:

  1. Agreement/acceptance
  2. Sending/receiving a message
  3. Mitigating a command
  4. Taking a floor
  5. Making an irony (counter-expectation)

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zhenlijiang
April 17, 2009, 01:43 PM

calkins,  一开始读,头就疼了...  are we in a hurts so bad it must be good mood today?

sorry, i know it's actually very informative and i should really read it. but i've just come back from sitting in on two classes back-to-back and my head doesn't want to take any more this evening!

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calkins
April 17, 2009, 01:53 PM

:) zhenlijiang.  I feel your pain...I've read it 3 or 4 times and I'm still scratching my head. 

I think 好 vs. 很 is one of those language nuances best learned through exposure.  It's like trying to make perfectly clear all the functions of 了。

哎哟!

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matthiask
April 17, 2009, 02:22 PM

as far as I understand, 很 means simply very. (<- period :) )

the simple thing I take from calkins monologue, is that 好 on the other hand can mean quite a lot.

One aspect is that it can be used in the same sense as 很.   In one of the newbie/ellie lessons, Ken explained the concept quite well, coming up with an example where "good" is used as measurement word as well.

So don't be confused too much and never ever use 很 in the sense of 好 ;-)