shenme/shenmo
emeraldearth
April 29, 2009, 02:06 PM posted in General DiscussionWhat is the difference between shenme and shenmo? or zenme and zenmo?
lotsofwordsandnospaces
May 29, 2009, 09:49 AMI noticed the Defrancis books lean more heavily on the -mo side of the fence.
I took this to be due to the era the books hail from as much as anything. They were published about 10 years before the government got to standardisiing things, and a good while before a true standard was set.
I simply have been reading things like this with a bit of brain altering. I take the 'o' of shenmo to be soft and short - and as a result, not dissimilar to sheneme. It might be wrong by todays standards - and I have no ieda if anyone actually speaks with an obvious -o ending variant...
These books are hugely influential though, I would be amazed if there are not a few foreigners walking around with some funny lisps.
Keep trusting your ears on stuff like this.
skyfx
April 30, 2009, 10:40 AMhowever,zěnme can also be used when someone is in doubt of something.
for example: 你怎么这么晚回家？ why do you get home so late?
zhenlijiang
April 30, 2009, 10:52 AMskyfx, it's easy for us to think of 怎么 in english (in this case. but not always) as "how come"--as opposed to "why".
how come you're home so late? (how come you got home so late?)
你昨天怎么没来？ how come you weren't here yesterday?
"how come" is very casual though.
janescu
April 30, 2009, 11:34 AMI actually agree about the bove except calkins words.And in some special situation,怎么means what,for example.
What's wrong?你怎么啦？
zhenlijiang
April 30, 2009, 01:32 PMjanescu, what do you mean? didn't calkins answer emeraldearth's question correctly?
skyfx
April 30, 2009, 10:37 AMcalkins is right,shénme and zěnme is right,shenmo and zhenmo is wrong. you can not find then in the dictionary.some people may pronounce shenme or zenmo in some region of China,but that's not the standard pronunciation.maybe it's only the local dialect.
shénme means "what",for example:这是什么东西？What's this?
zěnme means "how",for example:昨天你怎么回家的？
how did you get home yesterday?
skyfx
April 30, 2009, 05:43 PMzhenlijiang，i could hardly remember "how come" until you mention it,thanks for that.
miantiao
April 30, 2009, 11:58 PM@emeraldearth
i guess you are referring to the pronunciation differences.
although pronunciation changes according to region, meanings remain the same, as calkins and skyfx have already pointed out.
here are two words that you will find replace 怎么（how/why) and 什么 (what)in parts of china mainly in the south-west and mid-west.
咋za3 how/why 咋办？情况咋样？你咋不去？你咋来这儿呢？
啥sha4 what 要啥子嘛？有啥说！这没啥了不起！你为啥子不带我去嘛？
怎么 is often also shortened to 怎。 你怎才来呀！
为什么 为啥子 translated to english means why, but literally means for what(reason)?
note; 怎么 has many usages.
1. as an interrogative pronoun 你怎么啦？
2. indicating the nature condition and manner of situations and things in general 你愿意怎么办，就怎么办
3. used in the negative to indicate inadequacy 这个地方我不怎么熟悉
怎 by itself means how/why.
tvan
May 01, 2009, 12:09 AMmiantiao, are those variants used in writing (i.e. publications) as well?
miantiao
May 01, 2009, 12:15 AM@tvan
yes they are, but i've only seen them used in 散文 and小说， i've not seen them used in 新闻报道。but in sichuan provence i hear them everyday.
they're far more colloquiall than the formal versions.
calkins
April 29, 2009, 03:07 PMThey mean the same thing, some people (regions?) just pronounce them differently.
But if you're writing pinyin, they should be written like:
什么 shénme or shen2me
怎么 zěnme or zen3me