Advanced - 中西方幽默

zhenlijiang
 November 19, 2010, 11:03 PM posted in Transcripts with Tal

0240   Advanced - 中西方幽默

Hosted by Jenny and 乐观
 
J: 大家好，欢迎大家收听中文播客高级中文的节目，我是 Jenny。那今天我和 ...乐观要跟大家来探讨一个比较有意思的话题。
L: 对，大家好，我是乐观。今天我们探讨的话题是“中西方幽默”。
J: 嗯，对，因为我们这个东方和西方文化有一些差异嘛，所以对于幽默的理解也不一样。
L: 对，不一样。
J: 那今天在对话里面呢，我们会这个比较仔细地探讨一下，当然最开始呢，我们还是要问大家几个预习的问题。那乐观，先，来想两个问题，好不好。
L: 好。第一个我想问大家——西方幽默的特点是什么？
J: 嗯，等一下对话里会提到的，对吗。
L: 对。
J: 可以学到很多的是形容词我觉得。那第二个问题呢？
L: 第二个问题是——中国人对西式幽默的态度是什么？
J: 噢对，因为说过文化理解不一样，对吧。
L: 对，对。
J: 那我这遍还有两个比较简单的问题。第一个呢，是跟语言很有关系的。就是我们在对话里面呀，会有一个词，它是形容那些不好笑，没有达到效果的笑话。可能我们有一些朋友已经知道了啊。
01:12
J: 那还有一个问题呢，就是我们对话里面啊，会有一个意见，就说，你一边说笑话的时候呢，一边可以给一些提示嘛。那这个问题其实就是想让大家自己来发挥一下你的思维，你觉得这是一种好方法吗。那等一下，我和乐观细细地讲我们俩的观点——
L: 对，我们会讨论一下。
J: ——好吗。  那乐观，今天还有两个我觉得比较重要的词，你能不能先让我们来理解一下意思。
L: 好。那我想今天解释两个比较重要的词。第一个词呢，是诙谐。
J: 嗯，诙谐。
L: 诙谐的意思呢就是说法有风趣。引人发笑。
J: 噢，所以诙谐其实和幽默的意思是差不多的，对吧。
L: 对，对对。
J: 而且我觉得诙谐和幽默，它们指的都是比较——怎么说，能像你说的风趣就比较文雅，高雅一点的那种 ...
L: 对对对。
J: ... 好笑。
L: 对对对。
J: 而不是我们现在常说的这种‘无厘头’，对吧。
L: 对对对对对。
J: 或者恶搞的那种搞笑。
L: 对对。 
J: 好，那第二个词呢？
02:13
L: 第二个词呢，是‘弄巧成拙’。
J: 嗯，这是一个成语了，对吧。
L: 对，一个成语。啊，弄巧成拙的意思呢是，本想耍小聪明，结果做了蠢事。古语嘛，就是搬起石头。砸自己的脚。
J: 欸，有一点相同的意思啊。
L: 对，对。
J: 好的呢，啊，有了乐观的这两个解释，还有我们之前的一些题目，现在我们就可以听听今天的对话了。
(2:40) dialogue
(5:41)
J: 好，乐观你对今天的这个对话认同吗，里面的一些观点？
L: 大部分吧。
J: 我也是，等一下咱们可以讨论一下不认同的是哪一部分啊，可能。
L: 嗯。
J: 好，那赶快来解释一下刚刚我们问的问题，好不好。
L: 好。
J: 第一个你好像问，就是‘西方幽默的特点是什么’，对吧。
L: 对。西方人的幽默，其实我感觉到就是西方人开玩笑的方式就比较平常与讽刺啊，挖苦啊，就喜欢来取别人的一些弱点。
J: 啊，对对对！或者自己的一些弱点。
L: 对，或者自己的一些弱点。
J: 我觉得西方人的幽默观是比较尖锐的，对吧。
L: 对，对对。
J: 然后他们也好像比较崇尚自嘲了这种文化啊，有一点儿。
L: 对对对，对对对。
J: 那，其实这个开玩笑的人，他并有没什么 ...
L&J: 恶意。
J: ... 啦，对吧。
06:32
J: 只是想让这种幽默的方式呢，想让话题变得更轻松一点，有的时候。
L: 对对。或也一下气氛。
J: 对对对。  那下我们对话里说的有的时候，善意的讽刺也是一种幽默 。
L: 幽默。
J: 但是这个度好像有的时候会有点难把握，啊。
L: 对，挺难把握的。因为如果是语言不同的或者是理解不同的——特别是从理解上来说——如果理解不同的话，你认为其实一个，是比较善意的一个幽默。
J: 冷笑话。
L: 但是让别人听起来。
J: 对，好像是个讽刺他挖苦他——对吧。
L: 对对对，对对对。
J: 所以就是 ... 我觉得这种也不需要强求了，你自己适合什么，幽默的方式你喜欢怎么样的就 ... 自然一点好啦，对吧。
L: 对对。
07:17
J: 好，那咱们中国人——刚刚的第二个的问题啊——我们中国人对这个西方式的幽默，态度是什么呢？
L: 就是，大部分中国人——
J: 嗯。
L: 特别是上了年龄的 ...
J: 嗯。
L: ... 这样一些中国人——就是认为，不太能够接受，或者理解。 
J: 为什么呢？这个原因...
L: 因为中国人比较好面子。
J: 欸，对。特别是，比较上了年纪的中国人啊。
L: 对对。
J: 因为整个生长的这个环境背景  ...
L: 环境，对。
J: ...对吧，还有一些价值观都不太一样。
L: 对，对。
J: 我们这个年纪呢，我觉得，可能接触的面也多了 ...
L: 对，对。
J: ... 然后对于这个接受程度会高一点。
L: 对，会高一点。                
J: 而且好多——你觉不觉得——咱们的同龄人最开起玩笑了好像，反正我是经常被人挖苦。 
L: [哈哈]
J: 就是我小时候嘛，我妈妈经常会——她是一个很细致的母亲——她会让我带一瓶水啊，然后带一个水果到学校，那我每天都会提着好多的袋子。虽我很小，我才上小学，我同学就叫我‘家庭主妇’那样 [哈哈]。 同学说‘你每天像买了菜一样！’
08:21
J: 那其实也不是很恶意啊。
L: 对对。
J: 但是，老一辈的人就比较不能接受这样的笑话，啊。
L: 嗯，对。有点讽刺的意味。
J: 对对对。所以你刚说中国人我们比较好面子嘛。
L: 好面子，对。
J: 所以就会比较介意——
L: 对。
J: ——对吧。或者对话里用的一个词是比较忌讳。
L: 忌讳。
J: 嗯。所以忌讳就是介意的意思。
L: 对，介意。
J: 比较不喜欢。别人拿自己的一些不足来作为这个幽默的原材料，哈。
L: 对对对。
J: 其实了解到这个西方人他们幽默的方式呢，可能会容易理解一点，对吧。
L: 对对。其实最主要就是需要了解国家的文化。
J: 对对对。
L: 特别重要。为什么呢？我相信大家应该看过《艺妓回忆录》？
J: 啊，对。             
L: 我看到这部电影就是让我的感觉就是什么？其实日本人的幽默很多国家的人都很难接受。
J: 对。
L: 特别难接——因为觉得不好笑。
09:13
J: 他们的幽默我觉得——我肯定是理解比较片面啊，但比较都会看到是比较吵闹的，对吧。
L: 对。
J: 然后也是会拿人很恶意的开玩笑。
L: 对。其实日本人他那个习惯。因为我有一个朋友是日本朋友，他在复旦大学，读中文——日本人，他整个的成长过程包括国家的治理，他都非常地细致。
J: 啊哈对对对。
L: 所以其实日本人，他有很多的原材料，要表现自己的幽默。
J: 嗯。
L: 日本人也特别喜欢玩词语。在以前日本就是艺妓——最受欢迎的艺妓不是长得最美的艺妓，而是她会玩词语，会弄词——
J: 啊。
L: ——这种艺妓是最受欢迎的。
J: 这也很不容易ei，对吧。
L: 对，对对。
J: 像我们中国相声，西方也有他们那种，也像单口声是那样的啊。
L: 对对对。
J: 所以这些，所以幽默也是人生一大艺术和技能啊，我觉得，对吧。
L: 对对对。
J: 好，那刚刚我还问到大家一个问题，就是——如果一个很不好笑的笑话，我们叫它什么呢？
10:13
L: 冷笑话。
J: 欸对，这个好像蛮容易理解的。
L: 理解．．．
J: 这而且也是个比较新的词。
L: 冷笑话你可以这样理解嘛。用如何冷的，比较表面的思维去看 ...
J: 嗯嗯嗯。
L: 就叫热笑话说出来 ...
J: 啊，好象很热烈，对，大家——对对对——感觉，嗯。
L: 对，哈哈大笑的那种，对。
J: 你冷笑话说出好像就冷场了，对吧，
L: 对，对。
J: ．．．底下人没有什么反应。
L: 对，但是，我觉得冷笑话一开始一段时间没有反应。到后面，会。
J: 对对对！就是到后面大家发现就是一个冷笑话人，所有的人会笑你。
L: 对对对对，对对。
J: 而不是笑这个笑话。所以也是有一点好处的哈。
L: 对对。这样西方人有一个很著名的笑星—— 
J: 嗯。
L: ——吉恩凯利。
J: 啊对对对。
L: 对吧。
J: 你觉得是冷笑话的高手。
L: 对，他是高手。他的表情，他的肢体也 ...
J: eh对，好像比他的这个幽默诙谐更多一点 ...
L: 对对。
J: ... 我觉得他特是搞笑的那种。
L: 对对，搞笑的那种。他说话也是挺冷的。
11:08
J: 嗯，好的。最后对话里有记得他说，为了避免这种冷笑话发生嘛，那可以在说笑话的时候呢，相对的给一些提示。你觉得是个好办法吗？
L: 如果作为笑话本身来讲，有提示它就不是一个笑话。
J: 我也这么觉得！
L: 对吧。
J: 就是说，一路解释解释的你就根本不会觉得这个好笑。
L: 对对，但是幽默它是，所有文化当中最难被理解的一个部分。
J: 唉。
L: 幽默，它其实是一个文化的缩影。其实，幽默很难。没有生活阅历的人不幽默。
J: 哟，真的对文化有一些深入的——
L: 对。
J: ——了解，才会了解那种方式哦。
L: 其实我觉得就是，当然本国之间是不需要提示的。
J: 嗯。
L: 国外与国外之间，这是我认为可以先了解一点这个国家的文化。 
J: 对。
L: 然后再试着与他交谈。
J: 嗯，对。
L: 然后，可以慢慢地习惯于，不要解释。因为你想听笑话解释了就没意思。
J: 对对对，说得很好，啊。那咱们赶快再来看一下今天的词语，好吗。其他还有两个成语啊，你赶快跟我们来这个解析一下，好吗。
12:15
L: 好。一个是——‘反目成仇’。 
J: 嗯，对。
L: 反目成仇的意思呢就是翻脸变成仇敌。
J: 反目这个意思就说，以前是比较友好的，对吧。
L: 对对对。
J: 然后就因为什么事情的发生以后像你说的翻脸．．．
L: 对对，对对对。
J: 两个人反而变成像仇人仇敌一样吧。
L: 对对对。
J: 好。还有一个呢 ...
L: 还一个是‘其乐无穷’。其乐无穷的意思呢，就是其中的乐趣没有穷尽。
J: 所以无穷指的就是这个像无边无比，对吧。
L: 对，无边？
J: 有很多很多永远不完那种感觉。
L: 对对，‘其’就是代替之前所说的话。
J: 啊。
L: 之后所说的话。
J: 好的。那今天咱们稍微探讨了一下关于幽默的这个话题呀，大家有什么意见呢，赶快也可以上网到 ？？Chinesepod.com 上面来告诉我们。
L: 对。
J: 很乐意和大家这个交流和分享。
L: 对。
J: 那最后我和乐观要跟大家说再见了。之后呢还要请大家再来温习一遍今天的对话，嗯。
L: 对。
J: 再见。
L: 再见。
13:15
(13:18) dialogue
(16:19)
 
鸣谢
  Calicartel
  Lu Jiaojie 老师

Calicartel especially, and Jiaojie, did so much work to help get this transcript to the current revised version (Nov 20, 2010). Any remaining mistakes are my responsibility. Help spotting them would be greatly appreciated. 谢谢

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calicartel
 September 03, 2009, 07:15 PM

Here's some starting vocab ( the first 2 or so minutes).

探讨    tan4​tao3​    to investigate / to probe
仔细    zi3​xi4​    careful / attentive / cautious
达到    da2​dao4​    to reach / to achieve / to attain [01:08]
效果    xiao4​guo3​    result / effect / quality / CL: 個｜个
意见    yi4​jian4​    idea / opinion / suggestion / complaint / CL: 点, 條｜条
提示    ti2​shi4​    to prompt / hint / brief / cue
思维    si1​wei2​    (line of) thought / thinking
风趣    feng1​qu4​    humor / wit / humorous / witty [01:48]
引    yin3​    to draw (a bow) / to pull
发笑    fa1​xiao4​    to burst out laughing / to laugh
文雅    wen2​ya3​    elegant / refined
高雅    gao1​ya3​    dainty / elegance / elegant
武力    wu3​li4​    (make use of) military force / military force (I suspect they refer to "military" humour
本相    ben3​xiang4​    original form

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calicartel
 January 19, 2010, 01:04 PM

I'm still here. I've just replayed the sentences but I don't remember what my annotations were back then. Anyway, your readings must be close.

01:02 就是我们在对话里面呀， I do hear this, as pretty much identical to what I hear at 01:12 那还有一个问题呢，就是我们对话里面啊，~ - What I hear at 01.02 is 就是我们在对话里面会有一个词

07:58 咱们的同龄人最开起玩笑了好像 ~ this now sounds like 了 to me ... Alternatively, 来

09:29 日本人，他整个的成长过程包括国家的智力，他都非常地细致。 I still hear the 人 here. Yes, I agree there's a 人 here.

11:43 哟，真的对文化有一些深入的-- Hmm I still have a hard time hearing this as a 要 ... - Yeah, it's too "oo" (not enough "ou") to be 有

12:43 所以无穷指的就是这个像无边无比，对吧。 - Yes, this should be it.

P.S. : I have been spending some time with the Chinse Professionals interviews at http://www.laits.utexas.edu/orkelm/chinese/prof12.html#

These interviews are full of redundancies and unfinished sentences. Good practice for the kind of bits that tend to trick us up in podcasts. Interestingly, the transcripts are not 100% correct, so assuming they were made by Chinese people, even the Chinese are bound to make tiny mistakes when transcribing speech.

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calicartel
 September 04, 2009, 06:18 PM

I'm having second thoughts about wu3li4, it might be 无里头 ???? 里头 li3tou = inside, interior (vacuous, empty humour?). I can't find a character for what comes after "wuli". Sounds like "cou" to my ear.

Anyway, here's the follow-up down to the reading of the dialogue:

搞笑 gao3xiao4 funny / hilarious  [02:11]
恶搞 e4gao3 a spoof (web based genre in PRC acquiring cult status from 2005, involving humorous, satirical or fantastical videos)
巧 qiao3 opportunely / skillful / timely 
拙 zhuo1 awkward / clumsy / dull / inelegant 
本想耍小聪明，结果做了蠢事 [02:24] (you start being playful, as a result you do foolish things):
    耍 shua3 to play with / to juggle 
    蠢事 chun3shi4 folly
古语 ??? gu3yu3 ancient language / old expression 
搬起石头打自己的脚 bān qǐ shí tóu dǎ zì jǐ de jiǎo [02:28] (litterally you raise a stone and hit your own foot, roughly equivalent to shooting oneself in the foot) 
相同 xiang1tong2 identical / same
题目 ti2mu4 subject / title / topic 
[02:37]  .......  lesson dialogue ............ [05:42]

By the way, I think the male speaker here is the same as in the following CP video: http://chinesepod.com/lessons/military-training

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calicartel
 September 05, 2009, 11:54 AM

Vocab continued + some clues in English, down to [09:50].

认同    ren4​tong2​    identify / approve / acknowledge
观点    guan1​dian3​    point of view / viewpoint / standpoint / CL: 个
取    qu3​    here to tease (see 取笑    qu3​xiao4​    to tease / to make fun of)
弱点    ruo4​dian3​    weak point / failing
光是    guang1​shi4​    solely / just
尖锐    jian1​rui4​    sharp / intense / penetrating / pointed
崇尚    chong2​shang4​    to hold up (as an model) / to hold in esteem / to revere / to advocate    
自嘲    zi4​chao2​    to mock oneself / to laugh at oneself
(Jenny: "they advocate a culture that can laugh at itself") [06:25]
恶意    e4​yi4​    malice / evil intention
(Jenny: "use that kind of humour to make problems appear more 轻松")
气氛    qi4​fen1​    atmosphere / mood
善意    shan4​yi4​    goodwill / good-will
讽刺    feng3​ci4​    to satirize / to mock / irony / satire
这个读 [06:46]  Google results = 45 600 for "这个读" = "this reading, this interpretation" ???
把握    ba3​wo4​    to grasp (also fig.) / to seize / to hold / assurance / certainty / sure (of the outcome)
强求    qiang3​qiu2​    to force sb to do sth / to importune / to demand insistently
上了年龄的 [07:28]
面子    mian4​zi5​    outer surface / outside / honor / reputation
生长    sheng1​zhang3​    to grow
环境    huan2​jing4​    environment / circumstances / surroundings
被禁    bei4​jin4​    forbidden / proscribed ???
价值    jia4​zhi2​    value / worth / fig. values (ethical, cultural etc)
价值观    jia4​zhi2​guan1​    system of values
年纪    nian2​ji4​    age / CL: 把, 个   
接触的面 [07:52] ??? contact surface (2 430 000 occurrences in Google)
接触    jie1​chu4​    to touch / to contact / access / in touch with
Jenny: "... following which the degree of acceptance will be higher"
同龄    tong2​ling2​    of the same age
细致    xi4​zhi4​    delicate / fine / careful / meticulous / painstaking
提    ti2​    to carry (hanging down from the hand)
袋子    dai4​zi5​    bag
(she had to carry quite a few bags each day)
(Jenny: I was very young, I'd just begun primary school ...)
家庭    jia1​ting2​    family / household
主妇    zhu3​fu4​    housewife
(Jenny: they called me "the housewife", looked like I'd been shopping for food) [08:22]
介意    jie4​yi4​    to care about / to take offense / to mind
原材料    yuan2​cai2​liao4​    raw materials / unprocessed materials
艺伎回忆录 Memoirs of a Geisha, a motion picture
艺妓    yi4​ji4​    geisha (Japanese female entertainer)
忆    yi4​    remember
录    lu4​    diary / record / to hit / to copy
估定    gu1​ding4​    to assess / to estimate the value [09:05] ????
片面    pian4​mian4​    unilateral / one-sided    
吵闹    chao3​nao4​    noisy
拿人    na2​ren2​    making things awkward / to cause difficulties / to exert influence / to attract
复旦大学     Fu4​dan4​da4​xue2​    Fudan University Shanghai  [09:28]
(the two Japanese were reading Chinese at Fudan University)
整个    zheng3​ge4​    whole / entire / total
成长    cheng2​zhang3​    to mature / to grow / growth
国家的智力  [09:32] has 1 650 000 occurrences in Google ???
国家的智力中心 = country's intellectual center (http://baike.baidu.com/view/398192.html)
智力    zhi4​li4​    intelligence / intellect
?? 词语 [09:41]
赞美    zan4​mei3​    admire / applause / praise / to eulogize
(He says the Geisha needn't be the most beautiful but she must be able to use words and wan-ci-yu ??) [09:56]

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zhenlijiang
 September 06, 2009, 09:20 PM

Hey Calicartel, those are awesome notes (and clues--fun.)!  A lot of those words I wouldn't have known to look for, like 恶搞 which isn't to be found in my dictionary.

wúlítóu is 无厘头, slapstick--something I only happen to know because it was discussed in The Monkey King lesson (around 13:15) I recently transcribed. Strangely it isn't included in the (short!) MK lesson vocab list. It ought to be because it doesn't appear in my dictionaries
--or was the term intentionally left out because it might quickly become outdated?

I couldn't find where the 本相 appeared--or is this actually the 本想～, in the following?
本想耍小聪明，结果做了蠢事 [02:24]  I found in a Baidu search a lot of 本想耍弄聪明，结果做了蠢事 's, and a lot of 耍小聪明s alone.
The audio doesn't of course sound anything like 弄.

搬起石头打自己的脚 [02:28]  This sounds to me like 砸zá自己的脚--drop something heavy on sth.

Instead of 光是 it sounds to me like 我觉得西方人的幽默观是比较尖锐的--sense of humor I guess you could translate 幽默观 as, or outlook on humor. This ～观 we have a lot of in Japanese, seems like more than in Chinese?--価値観、死生観、人生観  just to name the most common.

That's as far as I am now.
Your enormously helpful work on this is greatly appreciated!

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calicartel
 September 07, 2009, 12:26 PM

You're right on 光是/观是 and 打/砸. "砸自己的脚" has over 2 million occurrences while "打自己的脚" has under 5 hundred thousand. Numbers in search engines are seldom wrong.

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calicartel
 September 07, 2009, 06:11 PM

Follow-up down to the end. Many questions marks here. As I said above, older lessons digress more from the main text and that's why they are more difficult to reconstruct.

相声    xiang4​sheng5​    comic dialog / sketch / cross talk
danko ??? [09:57]
人生    ren2​sheng1​    life ??? [10:01]
技能    ji4​neng2​    technical ability / skill
热烈    re4​lie4​    warm (welcome etc)
表面    biao3​mian4​    surface / face / outside / appearance OR 表明    biao3​ming2​    to make clear /
to make known / to state clearly / to indicate [10:26] ????
冷场    leng3​chang3​    awkwardly silent (pause in a conversation)
反应    fan3​ying4​    to react / to respond / reaction / response
笑xing?????
凯利     Kai3​li4​    Kelly (person name) (he seems to be referring to a comedian by that name, could it be Gene Kelly of Singing in the Rain fame? He was hardly a comic. Anyway it's 金凱利 in mandarin)
高手    gao1​shou3​    expert / a past master / a dab hand
表情    biao3​qing2​    (facial) expression / to express one's feelings / expression
zhi4​qi4​ ??????
搞笑    gao3​xiao4​    funny / hilarious     
wa???? [11:06]
xiang-dui-de ???  [11:18] ???
缩影    suo1​ying3​    miniature / a big picture in a nutshell / the epitome (of sth)
生活阅历的人 [11:41]
阅历    yue4​li4​    to see / to experience
深入    shen1​ru4​    to penetrate deeply / thorough      
本国    ben3​guo2​    one's own country
之间    zhi1​jian1​    between / among / inter-
yu ????? [11:56]
交谈    jiao1​tan2​    talk with each other / converse / chat
解析    jie3​xi1​    to analyze / to resolve / (math.) analysis / analytic [12:15]
反目    fan3​mu4​    to quarrel / to fall out with sb
仇    chou2​    hatred / animosity / enmity / a rival / an enemy / feud
翻脸    fan1​lian3​    to fall out with sb / to become hostile
翻    fan1​    to turn over / to flip over / to overturn / to translate
脸    lian3​    face
仇敌    chou2​di2​    enemy
穷尽    qiong2​jin4​    end / bound / boundary    
无边    wu2​bian1​    without boundary / not bordered
乐意    le4​yi4​    to be willing to do sth. / to be ready to do sth. / to be happy to do sth. / content / satisfied         
温习    wen1​xi2​    to review / to revise [13:14]

.................... lesson dialogue and END ...........

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calicartel
 September 07, 2009, 06:18 PM

Zhenlijiang my friend, you've got your work cut out for you! I shall be on "holiday" until the end of the week. I'm looking forward to proofreading some of your work next week. I've read Microsoft have produced a Chinese spellchecker for Office 2007. Could be useful for doing transcripts (if it works that is).

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zhenlijiang
 September 07, 2009, 09:59 PM

哇 Calicartel 每一节课学得这么细致吗？这些真的很有用，很佩服你。幸亏你的帮助，我要花费的时间一定会缩短得多。太谢谢你了！

那么，既然有了限期，我该急一点吧。火烧屁股了！

Personally I'm no fan of spellcheckers unless they're human. Like you say, I suppose such software could be useful for making these handmade transcripts more accurate, if they really are good.
But it seems to me that Chinese, where a character means something, presents a greater difficulty than English.

Thank you again for helping me out on this. Enjoy your "holiday"!

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zhenlijiang
 September 22, 2009, 07:12 AM

Calicartel, the first draft is nearly ready to go up. I'm finding this one a real toughie haha.

I think it's 背景 bei4jing3 rather than 被禁;  生长的这个环境背景.

at 09:05, 乐观 says 我看到这部电影就是让我 ...

Rather than two Japanese, I'm hearing
我有一个朋友是日本朋友，他在复旦大学，读中文--
读 in this sense means to study. If you're a student and someone asks you what you do you might say 我还在读书, I'm still in school.

at 09:41 日本人也特别喜欢玩词语。在以前日本就是艺妓--最受欢迎的艺妓不是赞了最美的艺妓，而是她会玩词语，会弄词--
I think this is 玩词语, and it sounds to me like 赞了最美的 as opposed to 赞美？

at 09:57 is 像我们中国相声，西方也有他们那种，也像单口声是那样的啊。  monologue (stand-up comic), as opposed to the Chinese crosstalk.

at 10:01 it sounds to me like 所以幽默也是深意大艺术和技能 ...

at 10:51 it's 有一个很著名的笑星--    and I think Gene Kelly is 吉恩凯利? I admit I'm also mystified by this reference; obviously I don't understand what's being said here too well.

at 11:06 it sounds to me something like 他说话也是挺冷的。

There are still many other bits I couldn't get!

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zhenlijiang
 September 04, 2009, 02:04 PM

Calicartel, 谢谢你的帮助！

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zhenlijiang
 September 22, 2009, 07:55 PM

The transcript has finally been uploaded; you can view it here. It's very first draft-y. Many blanks and ???s. Hope you don't find it too big a headache to look at.

I didn't find Leguan particularly difficult to listen to; I did find the banter on the whole difficult for my level.

And thanks very much for the great link! I agree, so much great listening material there, and with transcripts.
I don't know if it's already been introduced here before. Dr. Orlando Kelm is a fellow poddie isn't he?

Any feedback (nitpicking included) very welcome!
Thanks.

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calicartel
 September 24, 2009, 01:19 PM

Right right! I'll go over the script this week-end and fill in as many gaps as I can.

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calicartel
 September 25, 2009, 09:59 PM

Allright. Here's the script with whatever improvements I could suggest. Many question marks remain. Google's coulour-coding doesn't much agree with me so I italicised my additions and enlarged the font. I use the "strike-out" font too with unconvincing results. The result is somewhat messy. Next time I'll revert to listing the suggestions. I hope you can sort it out : http://docs.google.com/Doc?docid=0ATgeFFwjz4TJZGRwNDdmazRfNGYybXA4MmR6&hl=en_GB

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zhenlijiang
 September 26, 2009, 08:14 PM

Calicartel--yes I know! I too have come to abhor color-marking on Google Documents. However I know listing the suggestions is a pain too.

Thank you for going through this draft--a lot of work! I might have further questions and maybe I'll take them to our teachers as well.

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zhenlijiang
 January 13, 2010, 10:41 PM

Calicartel I've been so rude and kept putting this off, and now it's over three months since you so generously helped me with this transcript. Such a delay is inexcusable and I'm sorry. I am working on it right now.

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bababardwan
 January 13, 2010, 11:02 PM

你们加油！！ ：）

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zhenlijiang

应该跟你学一学，不管难不难都要做到！

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zhenlijiang
 January 14, 2010, 06:14 AM

应该跟你学一学，不管难不难都要做到！

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zhenlijiang
 January 19, 2010, 12:32 PM

Hi Calicartel (um, if you don't remember me I do understand ...) at long last I've finished going through your meticulous corrections from September 25--thank you so much--and had these few minor questions:

01:02  就是我们在对话里面呀，  I do hear this, as pretty much identical to what I hear at  01:12  那还有一个问题呢，就是我们对话里面啊，~

07:58  咱们的同龄人最开起玩笑了好像 ~ this now sounds like 了 to me ...

09:29  日本人，他整个的成长过程包括国家的智力，他都非常地细致。  I still hear the 人 here. And without it doesn't the sentence not make sense?

10:40  对对对！就是到后面大家发现就是一个冷笑话人，所有的人会笑你。        ——对对对。    而不是笑这个笑话。所以也是有一点好处的哈。
These are just words I think I managed to pick up afterward.

10:57  对，他是高手。他的表情，他的肢体也 ...
I now see this must be 肢体 (as opposed to 机体); actually in Japanese we often use this word, which literally would seem to refer just to the limbs, when describing the elegant beauty (eloquent body language) of a model or dancer. I could certainly see it being applied to someone like Gene Kelly.

11:26  就是说，一路解释解释的你就根本不会觉这个好笑。
Just another word I think I caught on the new listen.

11:43  哟，真的对文化有一些深入的--   Hmm I still have a hard time hearing this as a 要 ...

11:57  然后再设置？与他交谈。  Here the tones are sounding to me much more like a 4-3 or 1-3, than a 2-4 (实践).

12:43  所以无穷指的就是这个像无边无比，对吧。
This part sounds to me like this now.

Just wanted to let you know what I thought of these, before I went to our teachers to ask all my questions on the many words I couldn't catch.

Thank you again, for all your help on this. I'm sorry this has taken so long.

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calicartel

I'm still here. I've just replayed the sentences but I don't remember what my annotations were back then. Anyway, your readings must be close.

01:02 就是我们在对话里面呀， I do hear this, as pretty much identical to what I hear at 01:12 那还有一个问题呢，就是我们对话里面啊，~ - What I hear at 01.02 is 就是我们在对话里面会有一个词

07:58 咱们的同龄人最开起玩笑了好像 ~ this now sounds like 了 to me ... Alternatively, 来

09:29 日本人，他整个的成长过程包括国家的智力，他都非常地细致。 I still hear the 人 here. Yes, I agree there's a 人 here.

11:43 哟，真的对文化有一些深入的-- Hmm I still have a hard time hearing this as a 要 ... - Yeah, it's too "oo" (not enough "ou") to be 有

12:43 所以无穷指的就是这个像无边无比，对吧。 - Yes, this should be it.

P.S. : I have been spending some time with the Chinse Professionals interviews at http://www.laits.utexas.edu/orkelm/chinese/prof12.html#

These interviews are full of redundancies and unfinished sentences. Good practice for the kind of bits that tend to trick us up in podcasts. Interestingly, the transcripts are not 100% correct, so assuming they were made by Chinese people, even the Chinese are bound to make tiny mistakes when transcribing speech.

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calicartel
 September 22, 2009, 05:42 PM

Zhenlijiang, good work! 

I got Gene Kelly = 金凱利 from the Chinese Wikipedia (http://zh.wikipedia.org/zh-tw/%E9%87%91%C2%B7%E5%87%B1%E5%88%A9). There may be more than one transcriptions (indeed more than one "Gene Kelly").

赞了最美的 as opposed to 赞美 : that's right. In fact I gave 赞美 as the verb to remember, net of prepositions like "了", "最" etc.

I'll go over your script as soon as it's online. One of the reason this podcast is tough is because Leguan digresses a lot. Here's one tip you will certainly find valuable: go to http://www.laits.utexas.edu/orkelm/chinese/prof12.html#

It contains plenty of short interviews from people all around China, together with transcript and English translation. Huge amount of material. I'll use it regularly from now on to familiarise myself with non standard Chinese accents.