Bogan
bodawei
November 28, 2010, 06:13 AM posted in I Have a QuestionWhen go_manly strutted these boards I remember a thread that explored the word 'bogan' - I won't go into it in detail now, but it is a snobbish and disparaging description of someone who has probably received little education, and is proud of that? The 'bogan' may assert their anti-intellectual views on life 'loudly', in life-style, dress sense. In Australia there is a geographical element. But ultimately the expression says more about the speaker than the object of the label.
Last night I was at an event where a Chinese guy was translating for some Australians speaking to a Chinese audience. One of the Aussies mentioned bogans - and I could 'feel' the tension in the translators face. (He had no idea what it was.)
I spoke to him later and said I don't think it can be translated - because there are no bogans in China. I also noted that the word was used wrongly - the guy who said it meant something else - he meant someone who is essentially artistically illiterate - no 'appreciation of art.' 'Bogan' drags in all kinds of other connotations.
Any views on this?
1. I would love to hear the most innovative translation of bogan for a Chinese audience. [Jenny Zhu - would you like to take this question? You must have met bogans in Sydney?]
2. I would also like to hear a discussion about how you would describe someone who is artistically illiterate, someone who does not appreciate anything about art. 'Cold' to art, you might say.
RJ
I believe its more like what you call a Chav in the UK. Although Bogans are not necessarily young. Here is a list of similar terms from wikipedia from different geographical locations:
* Ocker
* Bodgies and Widgies
* Chozzie
* Pikey, (UK)
* White Trash (United States and Canada)
* Redneck (United States and Canada)
* Guido (United States)
* Hoser (Canada)
* Skid (United States and Canada)
* Westie (Australia & NZ)
* Feral (Australia)
* Chav (UK)
* Ned (Scotland)
* Jejemon (Philippines)
* Scanger (Ireland)
* Ah Beng (Singapore)
* Classism
* Class conflict
* Raggare (Sweden)
* Dres (Poland)
* Yobbo
* Lumpenproletariat (Russia)
xiao_liang
November 30, 2010, 08:50 AMBump. As predicted this got drowned over the weekend.
light487
November 30, 2010, 07:30 PMI think the term generally refers to them as being "people from the countryside" who have uneducated/uncultured views of the world and consequently behaviours that reflect those views. (not that I agree or disagree with this, just trying to define the term(s) more clearly)
Maybe something along the lines of 乡下人 (xiang xia ren)?
xiao_liang
Checked with the girlfriend, apparently 乡下人 is exactly the right description for what bodawei's talking about. Very disparaging and snobbish.
The "chav" kind of list of meanings is a bit different really. Just means a kind of unsocial yob that hangs around street corners causing trouble wearing tracksuits...
light487
Yes.. and as it tends to have the same "impolite" connotations associated as we have for "yobbo" or "redneck" it's something could be joked about in closed-circles but not something spoken very openly about.. China may not be totally politically correct in regards to some of things we in the West consider to be PC but they do have their own forms of PC.. and this would be one of them. :)
jennyzhu
December 01, 2010, 05:50 AMI guess "bogan" could be translated as "土包子"/tu3bao1zi, which is often translated as "country bumpkin."
bodawei
Thanks Jenny for having a lash at this. there is a bit of a nasty edge to using this term in Australia and I guess that would be true of using 土包子 in china, unless one is talking about oneself.
waiguoren
December 02, 2010, 02:05 AMI remember there was a lesson once that described someone as having '没有文化' - no culture. Perhaps, a non-exact translation?
bodawei
I have heard someone use a 'no culture' expression in this context, but a different expression, I think a 俗语 .. unfortunately I can't remember it!
light487
December 02, 2010, 02:16 AMHow about a transliteration? :p
Bó (neck) Gàn (dark red)
hehe.. :p
orangina
hehe, that's not a transliteration, that's a tranlateration.
light487
hehehe.. yer.. I just grabbed the two most relevant characters for bo and gan :)
bodawei
He he - works with an Australian audience anyway.
It made me think about transliterations - they only work where the word is widely known or popular - eg. Coca Cola.
There is a really popular transliteration around now: hua1 shen1 (fashion). Interstingly when I asked someone what characters are used they said 'there are no characters' - maybe this is language in the making. It is still oral. I guess you could choose any number of characters to fit. In fact you find this with transliterations, there are sometimes two or more characters in use for the same word.
New transliterations are appearing all the time...
light487
Yes.. there is a similar one for "Muffin".. if I search my dictionary it comes up with something like "song bing" (or bing song.. I can't remember right now) but my friends in the coffee shop say "má fèn".. of course there is no characters for this but, and I have confirmed this multiple times with them to be sure, they say it is the correct way to say it.. :)
toianw
He he. That reminds me of a cartoon strip I once saw where where the English teacher is teaching the word "muffin" to her Chinese students, going on about how 好吃 they are. In all the kids' minds was the image of 马粪 (mǎ fèn). I hope your Chinese friends are not playing a trick on you. If not, better be careful with those tones!
xiao_liang
November 28, 2010, 01:27 PMI think this is interesting. I hope someone from Cpod notices it (sometimes threads posted at the weekend get buried by Monday when they're in).
On a side-note, I think a traditional description of what you're talking about would be a plebian, right?