Consecutive 3rd Tones
calkins
September 10, 2008, 02:21 AM posted in General DiscussionIt has always been my understanding, that when you have 2 consectutive 3rd tones (i.e. 美女 mei3 nv3 - beautiful woman), that the first word's tone becomes a 2nd tone (i.e. mei2 nv3).
I recently had a conversation with a friend from Beijing and after he pronounced 美女 as mei3 nv3, I asked him about the consecutive 3rd tone rule. He said "No way, never." He said that if you changed the first word to a 2nd tone, then "beautiful woman" would become 霉女 mei2 nv3...."moldy woman"!
I want to beleive him because he is an authority, but it goes against everything I've learned. I would just assume that you would know the meaning based on the context.
Can anyone shed some light?
guochangjian
September 10, 2008, 03:50 AMI didn't notice that the 3rd tone was changed into the 2nd when two 3rd tones bumped together, even if I speak Chinese every day. However, pronounciation is a little different between north and south mandarin, I am from south.
I just thought of another phrase, 蚂蚁 ant, I said it in your way.
amber
September 10, 2008, 04:00 AMHi Calkins,
In the written form of the pinyin, it remains as third tones. It's only in the oral pronunciation that it changes to second.
calkins
September 10, 2008, 04:01 AMThanks so much for your help with this! Now I think it's just a natural thing that fluent speakers do and most likely don't notice it. I'm still in the stage where I too often think about my tones, instead of letting them roll off my tongue. I assume when you speak at a faster (and more fluent) pace, that the change to the first 3rd tone will be natural.
I'm not going to take your $5 bet, because with my spoken Mandarin, he won't even know what I'm saying ;)
______
Thanks Amber!
guochangjian
September 10, 2008, 04:07 AMowe me $5
guochangjian
September 10, 2008, 03:02 AMthere's only tiny difference, don't worry about it.
when I say 美女 and 霉女 to a girl, she couldn't hear the difference. If I wanna call a girl 霉女 in a kidding way, I need to emphasis like 霉 发霉的霉.
actully 霉女 doesn't exist in Chinese words, people just use it in a kidding way, that is why your friend confused you.
I think your understanding about... the first word's tone becomes a 2nd tone is correct, you have a talent for Chinese.
I can't find much words connected with 2nd tone and 3rd tone ,only get 美好 总管....
Ok,speak 美好 to your authority friend in your way, I bet five dollars he can not find the difference.