Why I'll cancel my subscription
rohr4842
April 21, 2009, 08:38 AM posted in General DiscussionI have been studying Chinese for almost a year now since I'll be working in Shanghai starting late this summer. I have found CP very useful however my main criticism is the lack of transcripts for the entire lesson. It is so frustrating not to be able to finally read the words I couldn't figure out. The freely spoken part of the lesson is the one most valuable to me anyway because it sounds much more natural than the dialogs which sound rather stiff and staged at times. I lately came across "lingq", which offers transcripts for everything and has super convenient in-built vocabulary features, and most of it free.
Again, thanks CP for the good service but I think there are services out there that fit my language needs better than CP,
Friedemann
ilovechinespod
April 21, 2009, 03:02 PMDid YOU understand the banter (without Hennning's transcript)?
Do you think this banter is OK for an intermediate student????
I dont think so.
henning
April 21, 2009, 11:26 AMtvan,
the natural translation for us Germans - we have the word "eingebaut" (literally in-built -> built-in). It is actually a real word, although obviously not a commonly used one.
Regarding the subject: Actually, the banter vocab can usually be directly found in a common dictionary like CEDICT. This is different from the dialogues where the (given!) vocab translation is indeed indispensable.
ilovechinespod
April 21, 2009, 11:27 AMmikeinewshot said:
I think it is very good for your Chinese to figure out the what they are saying
Some sentences of Jenny in the older Intermediate podcast banter are not understandable, even for my wife who is Chinese. A FULL transcript would be great, and one of CPod's competitors offers such a script.
CPod can and will not be the one and only solution for learning Chinese. It's only an add-on. Nearly no grammar, no characters and no writing, no HSK tests, no essays or short stories for reading -- only dialogues: that's by far not enough.
bodawei
April 21, 2009, 11:27 AMI like it the way it is - sometimes the effort (and time) figuring something out is what makes it stick in your head.
I agree with Mike - I think that any language is best not served on a plate.
ilovechinespod
April 21, 2009, 11:31 AM@ tvan
inbuilt - Adjective - (of a quality or feeling) present from the beginning: an inbuilt prejudice
but friedemann meant:
built-in - Adjective - included as an essential part: a built-in cupboard; essential: a built-in instinct
ilovechinespod
April 21, 2009, 11:36 AM@ bodawei
I think that any language is best not served on a plate.
Then - why you use CPod?
You can just read a webpage, a magazine, a book, and find out everything by yourself.
That saves you a lot of money, but needs time and effort.
mikeinewshot
April 21, 2009, 11:46 AM
To Ilovechinesepod
I benefited a great deal from figuring out the discussion in older intermediate lessons. (I actually posted the words I had discovered for tens maybe almost 100 podcasts)
I can't imagine why a Chinese native could not understand them
ilovechinespod
April 21, 2009, 12:10 PMmikeinewshot says
I can't imagine why a Chinese native could not understand them
Do you understand this? --- http://www.box.net/shared/xnyyin6g86
My Chinese (from Taiwan) wife didn't.
see also usr1's complaint in http://chinesepod.com/lessons/chinese-wedding-customs/discussion
I would really like to know if Henning and/or his Chinese wife understand this...
miantiao
April 21, 2009, 12:45 PM@ilovechinesepod
你真的觉得我们来这里的学生那么笨吗？ 难道这是我唯一的学法呢？
You can just read a webpage, a magazine, a book, and find out everything by yourself.
废话！ 但是你忘了指出学生也可以在其他的地方看影片，听音乐，上正式中文课等等。
tvan
April 21, 2009, 11:02 AMIn-built?
henning
April 21, 2009, 12:50 PMilovechinesepod,
this is what I hear:
其实全说中文呢，我就想说自己的中文名字啊。 那今天我们中级课程(哎呀)要去一个特别高兴的场合
The core message of the first part is: Jenny explained that she used her Chinese name in the introduction because when speaking Chinese it just slips out.
chanelle77
April 21, 2009, 01:07 PMA while ago I looked at this "lingq" and did not find it very interesting or worthwile to spend time on. If I remember correctly it is based on a method developped by Steve Kaufman? who speaks quite a lot of languages. At that time the site was a beta (i did not like the interface a lot), lacked the active & knowledgable community you find here and a few other reasons I forgot ;-). It is partially / not free and you have to buy points for services.
lotsofwordsandnospaces
April 21, 2009, 01:10 PMA full transcript would be nice, sometimes... but I have two feelings on this one.
Often the supplementary vocab is thoughtful enough to throw light on some points... and the other thing -
You are learning Chinese, if it doesn't all make sense don't bang your head against the wall. Perhaps drop down a level for a while.
I have been listening to the Upper-Intermediate lessons for longer than I have been able to make sense of all of it. I am getting exposed to some Chinese I can get the gist of... but I really am more at home in the level below.
Perhaps they could have a lesson Wiki where some vocab would get thrown in.
Also, I have seen conversational transcripts before - and they get huge fast. A 15 minute lesson of average paced banter would be a tough job for anyone...
Finally, ilovechinesepod, what a username! I guess it is tough love: you do bring up some fair points. Chinesepod does have "Resources" for a bit more of the Grammar stuff. As for the lack of Characters... they seem to be thinking about it. Chinesepod is born out of podcasts, and as a result it is more dialog based, for now at least.
rohr4842
April 21, 2009, 01:11 PMWell I always try to figure out unknown words myself by listening over and over again, but at some point you want to know whether you got it right (after listening). In other cases you never find out and you want to know eventually. So not providing transcripts is a means to prevent people from cheating? I am a grown-up and I know best how long I listen, before l look up the word. What I also like about lingq is the built-in babylon dictionary that lets you look up (any) word and save it to your vocab-list while reading the transript, just by moving the cursor over the text. Furthermore lingq highlights the words you already know in the text (based on your vocab list), so you get a pretty good idea how many words you know.
It is about making best use of my time. If I had a transcript, I woud advance more quickly. How much time haveI wasted looking up words and not finding them because I couldn't figure the pronunciation out correctly?
Creating a transcript is not necessarily awkward, you can pay people to transcribe it, that's how lingq does it.
Yes, lingq Chinese is only beta right now. But everything I get from CP with my 250$/year subscription I get for free there.
CP was of great value for me, but I think the competition offers nicer features for me.
Friedemann
miantiao
April 21, 2009, 02:01 PManyone who has had formal study experience will tell you that comprehending what the teacher is saying is the most challenging aspect. reading can and should be done in your own time. this time spent reading and reviewing will increase vocab retention and therefore promote the ability to visualise characters when you hear them or before and as you speak(imperitive if one really wants to get to an advanced level because thginking in pinyin will only get ou so far).
as such, chinesepod provides a great alternative to listening to a teacher in a formal class. vocab are explained using everyday speech. the banter and vocab explanations are an invaluable resource for any learner.the most advanced learner will still find vocab that is new and discussions that will challenge.
one can't jump straight into listening to movies. as has been mentioned plenty of times before, you must learn to walk before you can run, but that doesn't mean you should be afraid of falling on your face once in a while in the process.
anyone who has studied to the level of advanced will tell you that you'll need between five and ten years in country backed by a formal degree in your own country, ask john, matt, pete and many others who participate here.
i've heard it all from my students in china before, all looking for a magic bullet.
i like it here because as chanelle has said, i like the people.
ilovechinespod
April 21, 2009, 02:36 PM@henning
thank you for your explanations. This tells me again that I have still a lot to learn...
ilovechinespod
April 21, 2009, 02:42 PMThank you for answering my posts in Chinese - will give me an opportunity to learn... ;-)
mikeinewshot
April 21, 2009, 02:49 PMilovechinesepod
I think you should ask yourself why your Chinese wife doesn't want you to know what Jenny said! ;-)
bodawei
April 21, 2009, 12:48 PM@ilovechinesepod
Must admit i am not 100% sure what your point is - you argue for transcripts but point out (correctly) that you need various stratgies for learning the language. I guesss one doesn't have to use them, so at that level I agree with you.
I think I can argue not getting everything on a plate and still using CP - but that is just for ME. I can't speak for others. CP in general is certainly more 'on a plate' than the rigours of f/t language study - but it depends how you use it. I don't want it more on a plate than I have now. I have a basic subscription - I understand that you get much more help if you pay more.
I don't think transcripts of these discussions would particularly help me - there are better ways to use my time than pick them apart. When I first lived in China I started listening to talk-back radio & at first I understood nothing at all but the time-call. After repeated listening I began to understand the kind of topics and then I learnt what the 'expert' was saying (mainly because they always said the same thing more or less.) This is just one of the ways that I enjoy learning the language.
CP lessons, without transcripts, at least at the higher levels is rather like this.
mikeinewshot
April 21, 2009, 10:06 AMI think it is very good for your Chinese to figure out the what they are saying, rather than be given it 'on a plate'