User Comments - AuntySue
AuntySue
Posted on: The Neutral Tone
February 12, 2008 at 10:41 AMChangye, I'm only a beginner at Cantonese but my (Western) understanding is that the final "k" is not pronounced at all. You do the "ho" part as if you are going to say hok, but right at the point where you prepare for the "k", where you chop the sound in anticipation of saying "k", there you stop, don't let that k happen. It would not sound exactly the same if you just say "ho", because you need that sudden k-style stop, as if a fish bone caught in your throat before you finished. As for Cantonese tones, it's a lot of rubbish. You can argue for any number of tones you like, depending how you want to describe them. Really, though, there is only three types of tone! There's the one that glides up, and one that glides down, and the one that is level and steady. Then you can do the same types of sounds in the high part and the low part of your voice, and claim to be using at least six tones. That's it, entirely. No puzzling neutral tone, no down-and-up tone. I find Cantonese tones easier than Mandarin tones, despite the theoretical number of them. So please don't be afraid of them. Of course, once you learn a few words of Cantonese and want to show off (and you'll only need a few words to do that successfully), you can tell people you're speaking a language that uses nine different tones, and there will be plenty of books that support your claim. Shhhh! Don't blow my cover ;-)
Posted on: The Neutral Tone
February 11, 2008 at 1:14 PMAnd now I'm confused too! :-) I've only ever heard it as neutral tone, when used for a question in Mandarin. The one exception is that when Cantonese speakers try to speak Mandarin to me, it often sounds like they are saying Ni hao mAAAAA! with a definite loud stressed first tone. :-) To me, saying the Mandarin question word "ma" as first tone sounds as bad as making the Cantonese question word "a" first tone. If I'm right, perhaps you should blame your Cantonese nanny? ;-) By the way, technically this is not an Elementary Level lesson, it's Newbie Level, so it's designed for people to maybe choose it as their first Chinese lesson ever. It would be nice if we could keep including those absolute first word newbies in our conversation about their lesson too.
Posted on: The Neutral Tone
February 11, 2008 at 11:36 AMDon't worry auntie68, I know you're there in spirit, and that's all that matters. Haha, "the Stunt Toddler" is a great phrase! I can't wait to find an opportunity to use it.
Posted on: The Neutral Tone
February 11, 2008 at 9:19 AMWhen I started learning I couldn't fathom the neutral tone at all, because what I was hearing, clear as a bell, had no relationship to the general instructions. I could not predict from the pinyin how it should sound. Now almost two years later I still go weak at the knees when confronting a neutral tone, and have no idea how to pronounce it until I hear a model to copy and memorise. Most times I give up and say the original tone. You see, the most salient feature of the neutral tone, for me, was that they all had a precise musical pitch, which was consistent for each word, and sometimes but not always related to the syllable's original tone. For example, When Jenny said mama or baba I might hear a clear F pitch, whereas the neutral tone of women was pitched around A and tamen was often around B flat. Swap those pitches around and the words sound wrong. I know beginners shouldn't try to analyse, but this wasn't analysis. To me from day one it was in your face data with no distinguishable pattern to agree with its description. Then suddenly today User12840 comes along and reveals that there is indeed a pattern of pitches for the neutral tone. Thank you so much! I can go back and re-examine the neutral tone, knowing that what I hear is real and potentially predictable once the pattern's details are laid out.
Posted on: Do you like China?
February 9, 2008 at 11:48 PMHappy new year and a warm welcome to you, ulver684, and to everyone else who has recently started here! Feel free to join in the conversations with us old timer students, we'd love to get to know you all and hear how your study is progressing.
Posted on: The Non-Chinese Speaking Tourist and Toilets
January 14, 2008 at 1:16 PMEeeeuw... so people who cook in restaurants must be using those kinds of toilets too, and not washing their hands with soap. If proper hand washing facilities are so rare, then either they must be dying by the millions, or our "wash your hands!" propaganda falsely promotes the certain death that we believe to be the result of uncleanliness. Another way round the handwashing might be to carry disposable gloves, along with the galoshes. Ha! Better idea! Just wear one of those bags....
Posted on: Where are you from?
January 13, 2008 at 10:33 AMBut isn't 我是中国人 subject+adjective too?
Posted on: Too Picky
January 13, 2008 at 6:12 AM對話第一遍 dui4 hua4 di4 yi1 bian4 dialogue first time
Posted on: The Non-Chinese Speaking Tourist and Toilets
January 12, 2008 at 10:02 AM... and if you look at the first picture on the Lillipad site linked above, she seems to have the same line of fire.
Posted on: The Fourth Tone
February 13, 2008 at 10:53 AMracerx, actually the correct "de" character was used. This one is not the possessive de that you're more likely to be familiar with, it's the de that I often notice in between (something that is done), and (the manner in which it is done). For example ni3 shuo1 de hen3 hao3 (you speak well) would use 得 for de, and you're not allowed to leave it out either. The two de words both sound exactly the same, but have different uses, so it's easy to tell which one to use... after you know about both of them.