User Comments - Tal
Tal
Posted on: What do Foreigners Like?
April 22, 2009 at 9:54 AMI have never actually heard the term 洋鬼子 (yángguǐzi = foreign devil) being spoken out loud in reference to a foreigner. I've seen the term in books and so on. It is rather derogatory I understand. It may even be a little outmoded and quaint now, but I may be mistaken about that. I think it comes from the early 20th Century when China did suffer from foreign interference to some extent, and of course from what we call WW2 when China was invaded by the Japanese.
As for 老外 (lǎowài) it is not in my opinion always a friendly and/or innocuous term. Mostly it is, used in situations where the Chinese people using it obviously have no idea that it can seem patronizing, or that it also shows that they fundamentally think of you as alien, not part of '我们中国' (wǒmen Zhōngguó = our China).
As a foreigner in China you will hear the term again and again and again, so if you choose to live here for whatever reason you have no choice but to get used to it. I have heard the word hissed at me by young boys as I walk by, (in a way that by no stretch of the imagination could be called friendly,) and I have heard it from students and Chinese friends with no pejorative or unkind intent whatsoever. I have heard it used by strangers to their children or companions as they catch a view of me passing through a restaurant or a supermarket, fingers pointing and curious astonished eyes following me, and I have heard it used by taxi drivers telling their boss on the radio that they've got a 老外 on board, (here also there is usally no intent at overt unfriendliness.) As I said, you will hear countless times, countless situations. It gets very boring, and that's the main reason that at times you will really hate it, you will long to be able to just be a person, and not a 老外, to be able to meet people without the feeling that you are some kind of exotic creature from another planet to be wondered at.
Here's an entirely hypothetical situation. Imagine we had a word in English which we could apply to Chinese people. Purely for the sake of argument, let's say the word was 'chink'. Now imagine how a Chinese person would feel if they heard this word almost every time they went shopping in England or America, almost every time they went on a day out, every time they are pointed out in the street by another person enjoying the spectacle of someone who looks so different. How might they express their unhappiness? How might the people who use this word react? "It's not meant unkindly," they might say, "it's meant affectionately. It's a term of endearment!" Will the Chinese person buy it? Even if it's true?
Posted on: What do Foreigners Like?
April 22, 2009 at 6:16 AMOh dear, (semi-literate) Angry Young Man alert!
Countdown to (justifiably) aggrieved support and (well-deserved) commendations for John in 5, 4, 3, 2, 1... go!
Posted on: Rise and Shine!
April 22, 2009 at 6:00 AMbaba! I only just realized that was you behind your new avatar!! Is that actually your real face somehow Photoshopped in? It's strangely unsettling (as well as cool!) I think the dog should have more of a smile though, it'd be more you!
Posted on: Rise and Shine!
April 22, 2009 at 5:48 AM"alcoholic English teachers" - whoa buddy, good thing you added that last line! I was all set to write a foaming-at-the-mouth diatribe in fluent *AngryYoungMan* to really put you in your place!
Then I was gonna flip you off for not including the UK's economic troubles and not blaming me for them!
Finally I was gonna needlessly insult you for trying to come over all reasonable and shit, instead of just letting me whine and complain the way I want to.
But it's OK now, I forgive you. Ha ha!
(Anyway you're totally correct. So many of my Chinese students are astonished when they learn I don't believe in God. "We thought all westerners did," they say. "No," I tell them, "probably just the ones you've met and/or seen a lot of on TV". Then I'll smile and say, "no actually I'm lying to you. In the west, everyone does, but we foreigners in China are not really representative you see. Anyway I'm an alcoholic!")
Posted on: What do Foreigners Like?
April 22, 2009 at 3:13 AM@ zhenlijiang - as I said it was a long time ago! Seems like another lifetime now! I'm probably the only one of our party from that night that even remembers the occasion, (you know how it is when you're young and going abroad for the first time, everything gets imprinted for ever!)
Posted on: Rise and Shine!
April 22, 2009 at 2:39 AMAh well, no good deed goes unpunished, I should really have learned that lesson by now. Whatever dude.
Posted on: Rise and Shine!
April 22, 2009 at 2:20 AM@joncui
Amber was one of a kind I guess. I missed her a lot and said so. But it's pointless to keep on bemoaning her absence. Life moves on and so must we. I'm not trying to be smart or condescending (really!), all I'm saying is that we can still learn a lot from CPod, and from the gifts of the talented and hard-working presenters that we have now.
PS. And that we shouldn't be distracted by hyper-sensitive trouble-makers who just come here spoiling for a fight.
Posted on: Rise and Shine!
April 22, 2009 at 1:40 AM@joncui - there's maybe something in what you're saying, but the comments section is really superfluous you know if your main interest is learning from the lesson content! You get pinyin and English translation in the pdf and the vocab and dialogue sections (assuming you can access those things of course.)
I agree it's very tiresome to struggle through long sections written entirely in Chinese characters, (I'm far from expert in that, it's really hard work, but if you wish it can be part of the learning experience.) Sometimes I do it, sometimes I don't bother. My advice would be just don't bother when people do that in Newbie or Ellie sections. When it happens in those sections it's usually people either showing off or making trouble, (I think Pete has now shown us that the above exchange fell into the second category.)
Posted on: What do Foreigners Like?
April 22, 2009 at 12:45 PM@miantiao
You're way ahead of me mate as usual! ;-)
I have heard those tones, but don't know what the unflattering meanings might be, (and I can't find it in either Wenlin or MDBG), can you spill the beans?
@light487 - Shanghai is a very big and cosmopolitan city of course. I don't believe that one can say it's truly typical or representative of China as a whole. Certainly on my visits there I've noticed that it's probably one of the more agreeable places for 老外 to live in China, on the mainland anyway. It's really the most western of mainland Chinese cities, (has a long history of contact with the 'outside world' of course), and I didn't get called 老外 every day there.
Anyway light, yeah maybe it is cute the first few times, and when it's obviously not meant in any way unkindly. If you come to China as a tourist for a short time then yeah, it's all part of the delightful experience of really being a foreigner in a foreign land. When you live here long term and hear it not once or twice but hundreds of times, maybe you start to feel differently, or maybe that's just me!