User Comments - bodawei

Posted on: Commuting Options

Looking back I wonder if my comments above are a little inflammatory and, if so, I apologise. It's not that I want to change what I've written, just that sometimes my tone is as whining as that of my intended target.

And ... I wanted to make clear that you and Mark are not my targets at all - I was referring to the 20 or 30 comments below the blog post that you kindly gave us the link for. And lots of unnamed people I hear living in China going on about the traffic.

I probably should have been a little more conciliatory - you do see some bizarre driving practices here (when compared to what you have grown used to in your home country) - I am just wondering out loud what makes it inherently Chinese.

And I am interested in teasing out the many reasons why the actual accident/death rate from vehicle accidents is surprisingly low in China, given the litany of reasons offered by foreigners as to why it should be extraordinarily high. A few possible reasons:

- Chinese traffic moves very slowly, peak hour traffic roughly half the average speed of peak hour traffic in Sydney

- much higher percentage of professional drivers (people who are paid to drive vehicles) as in Australia

- high tolerance of other drivers

- high price of vehicles as a % of average income means people have an incentive to avoid impact and cost of damage/compensation to other drivers

- now most people go through an onerous testing and qualification process (a few might hongbao their way through but I am yet to meet anyone who admits to having taken this route - also the penalties are getting higher and higher)

On the other side:

- poor roads, often mountainous and under pressure from adverse weather causes a lot of accidents

- high proportion of accidents involve bicycles and diandongche - no driver testing required & no requirement to wear protective gear on this most vulnerable class of vehicle

- people drive/ride (particularly ride) without lights at night, mainly to save batteries

Posted on: Commuting Options

hi miskat

Thanks for the blog entry - I'm hard to convince when it is a bunch of foreigners whining about China. :)

The writer has three arguments - the first I just wrote to Mark about - it doesn't make sense to me. The second - drivers have a sense of entitlement. I agree that some do, but no more than drivers of European/expensive cars do in my home country. And to understand Chinese driving you have to catch on that there is a fairly well-established hierarchy (like in the broader community) - not all drivers have a sense of entitlement. Not all accidents are caused by drivers of SUVs. But those two categories are easily targeted - I'm all for peaceful protest. Walk slowly in front of them to slow them down.

Third point - rules aren't enforced. Well, my general point is yes they are, if there are sufficient resources. And they are enforced in a Chinese way. I am surprised how orderly my city streets are - the priority bus lanes work well, people stop at red lights (far more compliant than in my home country), and no-one has an opportunity to exceed the speed limit. Drink driving is not tolerated. In general, the Chinese are the most tolerant of drivers - road rage is almost unheard of. These days there is a small army of people enforcing order in the pedestrian and bike/diandongche lanes.

Do they drive differently to people in the US? Absolutely, and often for the better (slower, more considerate). Are they 'innovative' (Mark's point), absolutely. Do they stop at pedestrian crossings without lights - no; as far as I know it is like Italy, they are not required to.

Most foreigners have only the vaguest notion of the road rules. The rules are different to the US; this explains a lot.

Most of the commenters are complaining that the Chinese don't observe non-existent road rules. People complain endlessly of cars turning right on a red light - learn the rules people. Every corner in China with traffic lights have this rule - I guess we will learn eventually.

But I certainly agree that we should be careful on the road in China. Is it more dangerous than in my home country - I'm a long way from convinced.

Posted on: Commuting Options

'unsafe driving practices in China may have something to do with the relative newness of people having cars'

You mean experienced drivers are better than inexperienced drivers? I agree up to a point - although there are plenty of bad old drivers, and the previous generations of drivers in the US were very bad drivers indeed, mostly learning bad habits from their fathers.

I agree that experience counts, but our driver training and testing is much better these days than it was, so I don't agree with the line on miskat's link that in the US people drive well because they learned from watching their parents and grandparents.

My son is a much better driver than me - I came from an era of 'muscle cars and no seat belts'. And he learned to drive when I took him as a 14 (13? - it's a long time ago) year old to join a car club - we spent our days racing the family car around a circuit and doing motorkhana.

Posted on: Commuting Options

The Internet in English on the subject of driving in China, road behaviour, accidents, road deaths is dripping with orientalism (the wikitravel entry is a cool example.)

It is different to my home country, granted.

We know that there is a heightened sense of danger in China - people go to extreme lengths to remain safe. Safety is almost the first topic of conversation.

Why do you think that Chinese people have a 'general lack of safety culture' on the road?

Do you think that this behaviour you are talking about is embedded in Chinese culture? (Or is it behaviour that we are just as likely to see in the US? Is it globalised behaviour, something to do with living a good part of our lives inside cars?)

Posted on: Commuting Options

' Im sorry about the confusion'

Not at all - I thought you were on topic, in fact I think I ended up agreeing with you. I also think buses in small towns are usually not as crowded as in the big cities - it's just that my explanation/theory is probably a little odd; I think it is to do with tolerance for feeling crowded.

Posted on: Romance of the Three Kingdoms

In the first character you allow something to be transported (by some vehicle), or you allow yourself to be beaten in some pursuit.

In the second character, you steal something; this also has a connotation of allowing something to happen in that you in effect allow something to be stolen from you, perhaps by not being careful enough. And a person is involved (rather than a vehicle); to be expected in the case of theft.

The other meaning of 偷 is the sense of being stealthy, or doing something secretly. I like 偷偷告诉 (to whisper). The connection with allowing something to happen, or permitting, is difficult to reason. Perhaps someone else has the full story here.

Posted on: Commuting Options

' I think that population density also plays a role,'

I'm wondering what you mean here, george? My guess is that with greater population density more people walk, so that should take pressure off the buses, but really the crowding on buses also depends on the supply (number of buses in service and frequency.)

Smaller towns have lower population density, but the degree of crowding still depends on a number of factors (as you say.)

Actually, I hazard a theory (borrowed from freeway design) that people use public transport up to the point that they find crowding intolerable. The case is clearer with a public good like a freeway but it seems to work okay with the bus as well. What happens in smaller towns is that the tolerance for crowding is lower - hence less crowding of buses.

Posted on: Manly Beards or Pretty Boys?

CP has been playing up for me too - interesting that Grambers mentioned it might be a Chrome issue. It is hard to get to in the first place (I thought that was a fringe benefit of living in China) and then it plays up in various ways just often enough to almost turn off a hardened user.

A toy boy is not likely to sport a goatee (I did find John's pronunciation weird, but I differ somewhat from other proper English speakers - I think it should be said with little or no emphasis.) A boy toy sounds like something you would find in a 成人店。

Posted on: Manly Beards or Pretty Boys?

'possibly my fav is this 眼光。。。such a great image it conjures up'

I have recently been going past a construction site on the bus with this on the hoardings: 眼光商服务中心 opening soon ... so the marketing people also think it conjures up a great image. .. :)

Posted on: Commuting Options

I've used buses quite a bit in three of China's big cities and at present use about 8 - 10 different bus routes each week, plus the metro occasionally (yes, I am a bus junkie). Although it is dangerous to generalise I would say that most city routes are busy for most of the day, but there are quiet times early in the morning and later in the evening. Quiet, but it is extremely rare to be the only passenger on a bus.

It is busy throughout the day mainly because people don't just use buses to commute - it is the major means of transport - to commute, but also to shop, to visit friends, go to the cinema, even out of town trips. So the peak is not as extreme as in Australia.

I would say that about half the time I get a seat, but compared to Australia the buses here are extremely crowded. They also choose to crush in more than they should. Often this is pointless because there is another bus just behind, or running at most 5 minutes later.