User Comments - bodawei

Posted on: 闲话2011年的那些事儿

讨论的主题很有意思，谢谢，

哦1月1号元旦节，新年好运！ 

Posted on: Focus and Specialization

RJ,

'am I the only one'

Undoubtedly not. The dialogues are always easier to process than the lesson because all the detail is there in front of you if you want it.

'I tend to think speaking comes last.'

I agree with this.. if it was at all possible you would go to China and just listen for a year. Of course you need to speak to survive but I agree that foreign learners jump in earlier than they should for effective learning, mainly because most people have a lot of trouble with the sounds.

'you are dead in the water after one sentence.'

Not really, unless the person you are speaking to is very insensitive. There is always a way to proceed when you don't understand a thing, and I have quizzed people who are way more advanced than me. The results of my queries are surprising. I was sitting talking with a foreign guy who is good enough to go on Chinese tv, (with his own show!) and I got left behind in the conversation, but after our Chinese friend went off to get drinks I said .. so when you said X and he said Y .. I didn't understand Y .. what did he mean? And my foreign friend replied..' I have no idea, I didn't understand a word'. But you wouldn't know from the body language .. he chuckled and skipped to a slightly different subject and we continued, and so.. you do not have to understand everything. If it is possible you might return to that point later in the evening ... 'so really, what did you mean by saying Y?'

I'm like you, I want to know every word.. you just have to let it go, to get better.

My listening ability is also poor (matches my other Chinese disciplines nicely), but I have developed strategies to cope, and slowly very slowly it gets better. On ChinesePod you can do all kinds of preparation and listen to the podcast as many times as you like. The 'banter' always takes you through the vocab, so you can learn the vocab first, and then follow the discussion by keying into words you know.

Admittedly this gets hard at Advanced level .. recently I listened to the one about events that go back to the past, and I didn't know what the hell was going on, nor did I understand much of the vocab (they were using words that are no longer used.) But by doing some preparation I would not have been stranded like this..

My real world strategy is to repeat words I don't understand and ask for clarification. If I don't understand that I ask for more (until the other person loses interest.) That 'repeat what you hear' strategy came badly unstuck just once that I can remember when I realised that the guy I was speaking to had a bad stutter. I was stuttering back at him thinking I was on to a new expression or two. :)

But you, I think, made the point that you are going to have a problem if you don't have the vocabulary, although an understanding speaker will try another way of putting it. You have to have no pride - I don't know how many times I have had the Chinese person say (to others) hee hee, the foreigner doesn't understand. If I'm feeling combative (and you know, I'm sure, that happens rarely...) I say in Chinese 'and when I speak English you also don't understand'.

Posted on: Focus and Specialization

RJ

Appreciate your take on this a lot - some good arguments.

Transcripts - your best argument is that it should be a resource and you can choose to ignore it or use it. It's hard to argue with that except maybe it consumes scarce ChinesePod resources somewhere (unless fellow poddies are doing it out of love.) I would rather they were working on another lesson. I might use a transcript occasionally if I was desperate to know something that is said. However you can ask fellow poddies, or even post a question; connie and some other teachers have been willing to answer specific questions. On balance I am in the sink or swim school, I would be happy to leave it as a poddie activity. If ChinesePod did them then I wonder if any poddies would bother? Anyway, there is zero chance that ChinesePod will change its take on this.

Roll-over dictionaries - not all dictionaries are the same. (I wish I had changye here for support.) For years I carried around a thick red paper dictionary and it was essential for my learning, the only disadvantage being weight. A roll-over dictionary is a different animal completely, a different species. One has advantages over the other. I now rely on an electronic dictionary mainly because it is lighter, but it has a couple of other advantages. 1. I prefer to write the character than enter pinyin - couldn't do this with a paper dictionary. & 现代汉语词典 is loaded - I am able to use this productively, earlier in my learning I could not. 现代汉语词典 is too heavy to carry around. But I still in some ways prefer a paper dictionary - it is easier to add notes. I have also added a thick character dictionary 笔画笔顺都首多音多义字典 to my at-home library. I use Pleco on the iPod as a last resort - it is not as easy as my electronic dictionary. But is there a place for roll-overs? If reading a news item on line I force myself to try and work it out, and if I am stuck I can dump that bit into mdbg or nciku. So I am probably in the walk away/sink or swim school (the mixed metaphor school?) and I will learn slower than the average student.

Posted on: Focus and Specialization

' there is a difference between being able to type the correct characters and actually understanding them (of course).'

Ha ha - yes and when engaging in the real world there is a difference between understanding individual words and understanding what is really meant!

Posted on: Focus and Specialization

Hi zhen

'often even enjoy the process. '

I think it is probably the social interaction I am thinking about when saying I am a bit jealous. I can understand that it is fun.

I'm sure if you do it voluntarily then it is doubtless helping the learning process.

Posted on: Focus and Specialization

'I'm interested why you think that doing a transcript would not put your brain to work?'

It would certainly put my brain to work, but not in the same way that it needs to work in the real world. Away from ChinesePod you need to do much more guess work and to use strategies for ensuring that you understand. You can't re-wind, so the process is different. I guess my argument is that the real world process is likely to be more effective - because mistakes are more costly. (I should have made that point before.) I am constantly making mistakes in the real world and quite a few are memorable. If you've been embarrassed, or even got the wrong thing for lunch, you tend to remember next time.

I think one last thing - there are individual learning styles, and mine might lead me naturally to transcribing a podcast, so I fight it, and try something that challenges me. I am the sort of person that keeps notebooks of expressions that I have learnt outside the class room since August 2006. I look up characters I don't know when on a bus. I need to lighten up and just listen and learn more naturally.

John mentioned finding someone he could talk to about the language - a variation on that is hanging around with someone who learns in a completely different way to you.

Posted on: Christmas in Chinese

Thanks Baba - so much for my fancy new (German?) diary. I did read though that in Canada it is Dec 26 regardless of the day, so if it falls on a weekend they do not declare another day as a public holiday. But 2012 should show up as a public holiday according to that site.

Posted on: Focus and Specialization

Yes, that comment of mine was a bit loose.

I am tempted to say that doing transcripts helps you improve your ability to do transcripts, and while true it is a little bit trite. I have reflected on it a bit more than that would suggest.

I was thinking of the point that ChinesePod is beautifully enunciated and I have always found the podcasts infinitely easier to listen to than real life. I was thinking along the lines that it doesn't improve your listening in the real world. But your experience apparently counters that, does it?

I was also thinking about HOW you actually improve your listening - it is no doubt practice. (I don't know if there are any special techniques.) So to the extent that doing the transcripts increases your time spent listening then, sure, it helps improve your listening.

As siteng talks about above I wonder if a transcript is a prop which can actually hinder your learning - for me I think this is probably the case. Even doing the transcript although that is infinitely better than reading them. For a similar reason I never use a mouse-over translator thingy (tried it for a day or so and really found it a hurdle more than a help.) I'm not going to do or rely on a transcript so I have to put my brain to work. I need the challenge to get my brain to work; it is too easy for me to not do the necessary thinking.

I am generally in favour of trying anything to improve my Chinese language - but when I weigh it up I would rather spend my time on other vehicles for learning. And yet I do wonder if I am missing ut on something.

So I am a little jealous. :) I just can't bring myself to spend so much time; I probably don't have the discipline. I listen once or twice and if I don't understand, that is life. Happens all the time in the real world, but at least there you can ask for clarification.

Posted on: Boxing Day

For those looking for 'Boxing Day' in Chinese, Chinese Wikipedia has an entry which includes the following: 

In Hong Kong where Boxing Day is a public holiday it is called 圣诞节后第一个周日 ('the second day of Christmas' - my translation) - this is consistent with the name given to this holiday in a number of European countries. It is also referred to as 拆礼物日 (a day for opening presents). 

Posted on: Christmas in Chinese

In Hong Kong where it is a public holiday it is called 圣诞节后第一个周日 ('the second day of Christmas' - my translation) - this is consistent with the name given to this holiday in a number of European countries. It is also referred to as 拆礼物日 (a day for opening presents) - this is also the explanation given in one of my Chinese dictionaries. It is written up in the Chinese Wikipedia (but the entry is in traditional characters.)