User Comments - tvan
tvan
Posted on: Regional Accents Part II
June 20, 2008 at 2:15 AMChangye, Thank you so much for the translation. My normal resource is missing this week, so I missed the puppet part (thought it was a Macaque) as well as all the nuances. So, 狗官们/dog officials means treacherous officials? I don't know about your dog, but mine's none too happy!
It interests me that the idea of Manchurianization (???) still carries a stigma. I have a 满族人 in my ethics class; she considers herself Chinese and speaks English, French, Italian, Russian, and Mandarin... but not Manchurian.
Posted on: 旧金山
June 20, 2008 at 1:12 AMpulosm, getting away from my favorite city, as I'm sure you know, Los Angeles' Chinatown is really Monterey Park. In fact, it seems to be the largest Chinatown in the U.S. That said, S.F.'s has a certain authenticity lacking even in its second, third, and fourth Chinatowns.
Posted on: Regional Accents Part II
June 20, 2008 at 1:04 AMAuntie68, if I ever receive less than a five screen post from you, I will immediately begin a thread titled, "Is Auntie68 alright?" ala "Where's Frank". :-) As Changye has correctly discerned, I am always interested in these side topics, sometimes to the detriment of my Chinese studies. Nevertheless, the topic of a vote for 普通话 seems to have been largely ignored in English reference materials and, while certainly "water under the bridge", appears to be much more than just a side topic.
On another topic, I'm still waiting for a translation of the last sentence in Changye's article. You mentioned in our "CantonesePod" conversation, that I might miss out on a particularly witty closing due to language limitations. I'm afraid that's what happened above.
Posted on: 旧金山
June 19, 2008 at 10:22 PM到1980年，好像多数旧金山的中国人只能讲粤语。但是越南战以后很多东南亚的难民跑来旧金山。这些难民连很多东南亚的华侨。大半粤语和国语两个都会讲。后来很多的台湾和大陆人来了，当然他们也讲国语。所以我觉得现在广东话是最有用，可是一半的华侨也会说普通话。
Posted on: Regional Accents Part II
June 19, 2008 at 2:19 PMChangye, in the latest of installment of ChinglishPod, Encyclopedia Brittanica states the origin of Mandarin as "The word comes through the Portuguese mandarim from Malay mantri, a counselor or minister of state; the ultimate origin of the word is the Sanskrit root man-, meaning to “think."
When reading your reference, I began with the utmost sense of seriousness. However, aside from being unable to find 满大人 in my normally excellent 远东汉英大词典, there certainly seemed to be a whiff of larceny in the article.
I do have a Chinese-related question. I understood all the characters and words of the last sentence but, other than a general sense of insulting dogs and Macaques by associating them with politicians (definitely not Mainland China or Singapore), I am not sure of its exact meaning: "台湾沐猴而冠，弄出了一个要『去中国化』的总统和一些狗官们。哎！阿扁，说声『喳』让老子听听."
Posted on: Regional Accents Part II
June 19, 2008 at 4:30 AMAunti68, you are a true Cantonese partisan. :-) Nevertheless, I think it would be more accurate to say that it (Sichuanese) would still be called 国语, since Mandarin isn't Chines. Insofar as the word Mandarin goes, according to an online dictionary, its roots are in Malay and/or Hindi, which, by implication, the English then applied to China. (Damn English!)
On Changye's material, based upon my feeble skills, it looks like there were two votes: one ROC and the other PRC. The ROC vote almost went for Cantonese, while the PRC vote almost went for Sichuanese; both settled for 北京话. Then the third site points out that just because it's on the Net... Now that's an aie caramba!
Posted on: Regional Accents Part II
June 18, 2008 at 2:48 PMSushan, thanks for the quick response. I'm heading off to work and will go through the page later.
ROC began as the nominal government of the mainland following the overthrow of the Qing dynasty. (Lots of warlords and a plethora of colonial powers felt otherwise.) It was ousted by the Communists in 1949 and retreated to Taiwan.
Posted on: Regional Accents Part II
June 18, 2008 at 2:06 PMPulosm's mention of the congress where the ROC (mainland) had a vote on 普通话, and Sushan's comment about 四川话 losing by one vote fascinates me. However, I have trawled the net and looked in my library to no avail. Does anybody have a reference?
Posted on: SBTG: Sun Yatsen
June 18, 2008 at 2:01 PMI believe that a number of his foreign connections, expecially those with Japan and Christianity, were obfuscated by prickly nationalists (of which China has more than a few) at various points during his revolution and following his death.
It is interesting because his ideas are very much a synthesis between various foreign influences and Chinese. I think the most striking case in point is where he took the concept of three branches of government (Western) and added an examination and audit yuan.
Posted on: Regional Accents Part II
June 20, 2008 at 2:35 PMChangye, rather than say "Raise a White Flag", I would say that we have jointly arrived at the truth. And I learned an interesting new (for me) phrase, 官话。
I think we've beaten this post to death, but it is fascinating that somebody somewhere decided to come up with a transliteration for 国语 based on a bastardized English pronounciation (damn English!) with no Chinese roots whatsoever!