When did Taiwan come under Chinese rule?

@changye, the advantage China has is that it claims the Spratlys twice: once as the 中华人民共和国 and once as the 中华民国.

That's great. With the definition, you can even conquer the world, hehe.

According to Wiki, "Ancient Chinese maps record the "Thousand Li Stretch of Sands"; Qianli Changsha (千里長沙) and the "Ten-Thousand Li of Stone Pools"; Wanli Shitang (萬里石塘)[7], which China today claims refers to the Spratly Islands."

So, I guess under that definition, if it's on a Chinese map, it's part of China.

噢。对。我同意。呼吸。呼吸。吸。呼。吸。呼。更好。谢。谢。呵。呵。

Thought I'd be a superhero for a change, so Captain America, Captain Scarlet, Sgt Fury etc came to mind. Also, on a flight to Malta the captain introduced himself over the intercom as 'Captain Lightning' - I don't know if he was pulling our legs or not - so I thought Thunderbolt was good.

Thought you didn't twig cos you said nowt. BTW, speaking of horse-thieves, what happened to your mate on the donkey ? Still around ?? Also, have we entered some sort of time warp ? I made that post 5 hours ago, and you replied 9 hours ago.

RJ: He's not damned cos he was a horse thief- it's cos he was Australian Hehe.

nothing wrong with your tone mate, I was just giving you a bit of a hard time over how much you seem to pack into one (very long) sentence.

thunderbolt was a horse thief. I usually get on rather well with horse thieves. Dont care much for comic books on the other hand.

ps haha, you're right btw. It definitely sounds like he should be some kind of undies on the outside superhero with a lightning bolt across the front of his lycra suit...but in reality I think he was nothing like that.

RJ,

hehe, you just reminded me of a line from Fawlty Towers, when one of the old ladies says to Basil "don't do anything we wouldn't do" and he quips with a forced ingratiating smile "oh, just a little breathing, surely ". I guess by your response my tone must have come off wrong, but nothing touchy going on here I assure you. I was just surprised /curious because I thought we were on the same page before. Looking forward to what bricky has to say. :)

Only in Australia would they give a name like "captain thunderbolt" to a Real person. Not to mention that to the rest of the world, twig is a small thin terminal branch of a woody plant. Baba - breathe man, breathe.

What makes you think I didn't twig? dangran wo twigged. What I'm surprised about is not that you didn't know who he was [ I was actually a little surprised when you first used that name when I was presuming you knew who he was] but that you used the name of someone you didn't know about, and also that I thought you seemed to know about. Where did you get the name from then?

What makes you think I didn't twig? dangran wo twigged. What I'm surprised about is not that you didn't know who he was [ I was actually a little surprised when you first used that name when I was presuming you knew who he was] but that you used the name of someone you didn't know about, and also that I thought you seemed to know about. Where did you get the name from then?

You've upset me. I'm taking my ball home.

I feel another incarnation coming on - just googled 'Captain Thunderbolt' and found out who he was. How come you haven't twigged that one ?

Nyuck, nyuck a wise guy are ya!

while you're right, it would have had a more authoratitive ring if it was coming from your "ancientone" persona. Perhaps you could flip back to that to answer the East Asian part of the question.

The bit about the old geezer ??

I completely agree with this.

Changye, 'ancient' generally denotes anytime before the fall of ancient Rome c.470/480 AD. If a student studies Ancient History he doesn't generally go beyond this point. The several hundred years after that are referred to as 'the Dark Ages' and then the mediaeval period. 'Early Modern' history starts somewhere around the reign of Elizabeth, and Shakespeare. That's the convention, if I'm not mistaken.

'Ancient' can also be used colloquially to refer to an out-of-date fashion, motor car or any old geezer; probably even yourself :-)

The guy is a hero in a classical Japanese puppet play, which was very popular when it was staged in the 18th century, but I'm afraid that most modern Japanese don't know about him. Incidentally, what is the definition of "ancient" in modern English? How "old" is that?

Thanks Changye,

You have confirmed what I suspected--saying "since ancient times" has a lot more powerful effect in English than in Chinese. I wonder what typical Chinese people think when they hear "Taiwan has been an inseparable part of China since ancient times." Do they think the (apparent) truth, as in a few hundred years, or do they let their imagination go wild and think thousands of years. Probably this can only be speculated upon.

By the way, if I may be so bold, any thoughts on the Kingdom of Tungning? The founder, Koxinga, apparently was half Japanese. I think the wikipedia article mentions that he might be regarded as somewhat of a hero in Japan. Not sure if that is true in modern Japan.

Hi kimiik

I think the definitions of “古代/古时/古时代” are rather ambiguous when they are used by ordinary people. For the record, in Chinese phonology, there are mainly four time divisions as follows,

Old Chinese 上古音 ～ 6th century

Middle Chinese 中古音 6th ～ 10/12th the century

Recent Modern Chinese 近代音 10/12th ～ 19th century

Modern Chinese 现代音 19th century ～

What period does 古时代 cover ?

Hi xiaophil

In Chinese historical science, the term “古代” is usually used for the era before 1840, when the first Opium War happened. For the record, “近代” indicates "1840-1949", and “现代” is used for the era after 1949, when the PRC was established. There is no era called “中世” (the Middle Ages) in Chinese history.

I still want to know how long ago ancient is in Chinese eyes? At least 100 years? 500? 1000? 2000?

You must have a bigger gun than me. BooHoo !

Well Captain Thunderbolt, when you become President of the People's Republic of Barnsley, I'll lead a revolt and Pennine Barnsley will secede to become the People's Republic of Penistone,which will no doubt overshadow you on the international stage. 警惕 ！

Very true. It is not a matter of legitimacy or reasoning or right, but a matter of power. The Basques want to be independent of Spain, half of the northern irish want to be independent of british rule, many scotts people want scotland to be independent of england, and I'm still waiting for the People's Republic of Barnsley to appear on the international stage. There are many other examples. What's right and wrong in politics ? Nothing - it's a matter of power, issuing, in the final analysis, from the barrel of a gun.

Now who said that, I wonder ? :-)

I have often thought China has studied America's more controversial territorial acquisitions very carefully.

I guess it's possible to draw a parallel between the history of Taiwan and the history of Hawaii. Is Hawaii an inseparable part of of the US since "ancient times" ? ;o)

Yes, no. Fundamentally, your reasoning is sound, but there are different shades of gray. For example, we would find it hard to accept any argument that the French government does not have the natural right to rule the people of France. The US, on the other hand, is on land that was first occupied by Native Americans, and some of it is on land that could be argued should belong to Mexico. It would be easier to make a case that the US government is not the rightful ruler of the land. (By the way, I'm not making any claim that the US government doesn't have the right to the land it rules. I'm just saying the case is grayer.)

In the case of Taiwan, it does matter as the stronger the argument, the more willing people inside and outside of China will stand behind it, and therefore more likely the tide of history will sweep it toward China. Of course this is only one piece of the puzzle, though.