When a person should move to higher level lessons?

I think you should always challenge yourself to work through the higher level lessons. If nothing else you will gain vocab and at some point you will realize you are getting it. I dont see it as a step function but as a gradual sliding in. At the same time, never abandon the lower level lesson because there is always something to be gained or reinforced here even if you dont spend much time on it.

Maybe I'm just strange, but I have a much more "structured" approach to choosing lessons. I have planned out what lessons I will do every day from September through May. My plan is: 1.) Three Newbie lessons a day (September and October). 2.) One Elementary lesson a day for 4 months (where I am now). 3.) A mixture of Elementary and Intermediate for one month (March) 4.) Intermediate lessons until June. I'll re-evalute things in June and plan from there. I'll be very busy during June and July, so I'll probably do a mixture of Newbie/Elementary/Intermediate. I tentatively plan to do Upper Intermediate in August.

I think that the main factor is motivation. If you like the challenge of higher lessons, go for it. If they make you feel exhausted, go back to a lower level. How much you can take will depend on lots of external factors. Counting characters to decide your level is probably too mechanical. There is no reason why one cannot benefit from lessons of varying difficulty. I regularily study both advanced and intermediate lessons, and I think that I get something from both. Of course it is easier to learn a language if you are in an environment that speaks it.. but you can do a lot on your own, escpecially if you have such a high quality tool as CP available.

I moved up when I felt I could get most of a Newbie lesson first time (bar the odd vocabulary word) but certainly the gist. Elementary certainly added challenge and it took a while to be able to pick out familiar words, often only from Jenny in the lesson rather than the dialog initially! [ keep getting the newbies as the odd words help developed reinforce the elementary lessons. More importantly they let me know I have made progress and am not out of my depth completely... I suspect this is like all language an art not a skill and you can't apply numbers to it. After all however many words you know mean nothing if you don't know how to put them together. Take Obi Wan kenobi's advice and trust your feelings :-)

I definitely agree with you guys on this. I started with the Newbie lessons about 2 months ago and have slowly started to add on the Elementary lessons now that I can (almost completely) understand most Newbie lessons. I really think it's helpful to continue doing the lower level lessons because there is just SOOOO much to learn and every little tid bit helps. Another thing is to not spread yourself out too thin. You only know how much time you actually have available for dedicating to your lessons. When I feel like I'm burning myself out I'll just slow down a bit and watch some Chinese movies or listen to some music. That way, I'm still using what I learned. Even if you just make friends online that are Chinese and want to learn English would help alot. There are many ways to actually practice what you learn here. ^_^ 加油

I agree with Lunetta, don't get hung up on a certain number of words, especially because that's all subjective and different for everybody, say you can speak 500 words but 300 of those are synonyms for words you already know like: 但是，不過 and 可是， (dan4 shi4, bu4 guo4, and ke3 shi4) there's 3 words right there! So my best advice is to feel things out, once a level starts becoming easy (not too easy) but just that you generally understand alot of what's going on, then it's time to move to the next level. Remember to constantly challenge yourself. I also would advise you to explore lessons that you feel are very advanced for your level because (as Jenny has always said, and I would agree wholeheartedly with this) the more advanced lessons help you to get the feeling of the Chinese language. It's not all slow and unnatural language built for beginners, you can better hear what it sounds like when all put together fluently. Besides, you can still pick up things even on a subconcious level that can help you.

Also there's no rule about how thoroughly you must learn each lesson. For a slightly too hard level, just the basic vocab from the dialogue might be ample, and give you a way of getting used to that level gently. For a really unapproachably high level, you can use it for listening practice for the general sound of the language at full speed, and pat yourself on the back if you recognise the occasional 不是 or something, before reading the English while it plays through again. Sometimes interesting words or patterns will stick in your head by accident, but that's not necessary. For example, at one stage you might study everything in each new newbie lesson, just a bit of the basic dialogue in new elementary lessons that sound appealing, and listen to all the other levels like listening to music. After some weeks or months you'd be able to cover the elementaries more thoroughly, and pick up an interesting word or two from the intermediate lessons occasionally. So forget the idea of "your level", and treat them all as resources to be used as you please.

It is important to challenge yourself and I wouldn't get too hung up on a certain number of words. Once you begin to feel comfortable about a level it's time to add on another. By comfortable I mean understanding pretty much everything except for a few words. I started as a newbie 6 months ago and after two months I began adding on elementary lessons and now I'm on my third intermediate lesson. Depending on how much else you have going on in your life I would be a little bit wary about adding on too many lessons from the higher levels if you're a newbie. They're time-consuming and you may end up feeling discouraged because you don't seem to make any progress.

Actually, every CPod listener is ranked according to some intricate algorithm - length of subscription time, number of comments, expertise in asking intricate questions etc. - and gets awarded a series of belts: The NULL BELT for absolute Newbies (comes with the subscription) WHITE BELT for recognizing several characters YELLOW BELT for answering with 哪里,哪里 when some Chinese people start praising you mere uttering some words in Chinese ... and so forth until you get the ultimate SHINY VELCRO BLACK BELT - which until now only Bazza could get a glimpse of. Seriously, the criterion to moving on is when it feels right. I started listening to the advanced shows from the beginning of my subscription and couldn't understand anything and I still don't get them, but I just like to sit in my car once in a while and listen to someone talking Chinese. (I do listen to the lower level lessons and do understand some bits.) I feel comfortable now with the intermediate lessons even if just get the gist of it. As I am a lazy, err busy, person, I don't practice my characters enough, I still learn words and forget them right away, but it is fun and I feel quite confident that my Chinese is improving. Next time in China, I am sure to be able to communicate more freely and I am working on improving my reading ability to decipher at least what the news in the papers are about - without guessing from the pictures.

Bear in mind that, as we discussed in another thread, your progress is only "typical" to you. In reading the comments here, I see that there are folks who have been studying far less time than I have and they're already surpassing me. There are simply too many factors to try to quantify why that is (age, previous language training, time to devote to studies, natural aptitude, etc.), but as long as you're enjoying the *journey*, eventually you'll get where you want to go. Good luck!

Don't forget that some elementary lessons are much easier than others. I find the diary lessons difficult, but the recent "buying a bunch of flowers" lesson fairly easy. Another one I think is quite easy is the "Football (soccer)" lesson. Perhaps other people could suggest lessons that they found easy at each level? I would like to find an easy intermediate lesson!

Quoting AuntySue: So forget the idea of "your level", and treat them all as resources to be used as you please. This is a really good point, and one that we at ChinesePod didn't even understand ourselves right away. We used to think people would love to be assigned to one level so they could explore all the lessons in that one level, but this is clearly not the case. Explore! Experiment! Enjoy!

agreed with all of the above: you're better off following your intuition and go for topics of interest regardless of level, rather than stick to a particular level. Get rid of the English crutches as soon as you can, and forget about counting the vocab you'r buidling up.

I agree with much of what has been said here. In fact, it's strange to see so much agreement. While I'm an Elementary learner, I listen to almost all of the lessons. Although, I have to admit that the Advanced and Media lessons are still a little boring for me. I'm not sure exactly with Aunty Sue meant by "forgetting your level" but let me say that I like having a level because it gives me a feeling of progression and accomplishment. It was nice to realize I was no longer a Newbie (i.e. to feel comfortable with Elementary lessons). And one thing that motivates me is to work towards feeling comfortable with Intermediate lessons.

"So forget the idea of "your level", and treat them all as resources to be used as you please." AuntySue, I like the way you think. I usually skip 95% of the advanced lessons, but after reading what you said...I think I'll listen to them on a regular basis from now on. Good advice. ^_^