No sex please, we're Chinese!
Tal
May 16, 2009, 12:19 AM posted in General DiscussionI'm afraid I cannot resist drawing attention to this piece in today's Guardian which both amused and surprised me.
Those who have never been to China may be unaware of the level of taboo and inhibition regarding matters carnal, (with all age groups I would say, but most particularly those over 30.) There is a marked difference I would guess between attitudes in China and other Asian countries, (Japan for example).
As hinted at in the article, Chinese people tend to view sex primarily as a means to procreation rather than as something to be indulged in for pleasure. Having a family and honoring family values = good; enjoying carnal delights = bad. Hypocrisy abounds as ever of course, particularly with men rich enough to have a mistress (commonly referred to as 二奶).
A can of worms perhaps? Who can resist opening it? Finally I'd just like to say that the apparent tackiness of China's first 'sex theme park' is not something I personally warm to. I prefer my carnality all soft-focus, warm and fuzzy, (but then I have been living in China for 5 years now - lol).
shuimengge
June 03, 2009, 02:03 AM@miantiao
非常报歉我的言论伤害到了你
你说＂一个文化并不能说比其他的文化好、现代化、文明、高进化等等，原因很简单，每个文化从社会的需要、环境限制起出现和发展，各有各的特点和需要。＂这一点说的很好，我从来没有要去比较两个文化之间价值的高低，我相信历史文化是很多因素造成的，存在即合理．我也相信未来也可能真会＂世界大同＂．在这一点上我们是不存在分歧的．
我帖子想要说的是，有些外国朋友只是就他们所看到的一个事例就发表一些片面的会伤害中国人的言论，他们看到的只是很多中的个别现象，是特例，并不能代表全国．
我的帖子是想劝诫国人，看到这里的时候不要郁闷，因为外国朋友了解中国的渠道有限，接触的范围有限，他们说的只是＂他们＂看到的，并不是全部事实．我们要宽容，要征服自己的幽怨和愤慨．不想－你却把它上升到了国与国之间的文化去了，不过是我没写清楚才造成误解，我很报歉！
至于你说我对他国的印象与理解，我只能说我知道的都是别人说的，网上传的，书上写的，然后通过我的思考留下来的一个整体形象，也许跟事实存在很大差异，还是不说了．
至于你说我们的那位毛老爷子做的那件事，我想你想要我说出来的是＂旧的东西中有很多糟粕，应该去除所以才有了那场文化大革命＂吧！确实是这样，我不否认．
但同时我还想表达的是，一个事件的出现是很多因素共同作用的结果，发动文化大革命，有上面的那个因素，但与当时的政治状况，人员布局等等因素相比，那只不过是冰山一角而已．
最后，我想说的是，我真的很钦佩您，作为一个外国朋友能这么了解中国真的很了不起．
还有，我想问个问题：曾仕强教授讲解《易经》曾说过＂不懂中国人，你能被他活活气死，只有读懂了中国人，才知道他们每做一件事都是有渊源有根据的．＂我还只是一个没有真正读懂中国人的中国人，所以还会为很多事愤怒．也许很多年以后，我可以心平气和了，也不会激愤了，才是一个地道的国人．但我想知道，您－－作为一位外国朋友，并且是本身经历的很多，也了解中国的很多的外国朋友，您在与中国人交往，工作或是做生意的过程中，是不是还会经常为很多所谓的中国式的事件处理方式生气？
Tal
May 17, 2009, 12:08 AMcalkins, you make a good point which made me chuckle! But there are other factors at work there of course.
Just the other day I took a taxi here in provincial Guangdong, and had the chance to practise my Chinese with those usual questions about age, family, number of children, etc.
Of course I asked the driver (a guy of 54 years) about how many children he had. (I should mention that here in the south the 1-child policy is not enforced so rigorously as elsewhere in China.) He told me he had 5!
After I congratulated him and complimented him for being 厉害 (lìhai) his response was a mighty frown and a deep sigh. "四个女儿," he said. "终于有儿子了". ("Four daughters, finally I had a son".)!
Thanks for the link antony, some more interesting information there. 对了，I can't help wondering about those "sex technique workshops" that Loveland (or 性公园 if you prefer) apparently will be offering to its visitors. Maybe I should book a ticket early.
miantiao
May 17, 2009, 01:53 AM成都市成人用品店很多，这肯定表示中国人对 ‘床上运动’ 非常感兴趣。
据我个人的经验，中国女孩在公共场所不怎么所谓 ‘开放’，连亲吻也不敢让别人看了，比西方人谦虚，可是在家里会变得完全不一样，太厉害了。不过我曾经就有一个中国女友。
calkins
May 17, 2009, 02:27 AMmiantiao, "sports on the bed"....awesome!!!
Tal
May 17, 2009, 02:35 AMWell sport one certainly doesn't see any 成人用品店 down here! Though I understand that a great many 'sex toys' are manufactured in Shenzhen for export to the west!
I love your phrase ‘床上运动’ btw, gonna have to remember that!
nuaa_er
May 17, 2009, 07:35 AM有意思，从外国人的视角看中国还真是有意思。
中国人对待性比较谨慎，这和中国的历史文化是由关系的。
认为在公共场所谈性是不道德的，不过现在这种观点正在慢慢的改变。
miantiao
May 17, 2009, 08:03 AM@nuaa_er
我们西方文化不久前看待性也是那样的态度，一般来说那时多半人认为除了在夫妻卧室里面外，谈性绝对不道德，是跟宗教有关，圣经里规则和教导。
现在不一样了，60年代西方文化经过所谓 ‘性革命’。
calkins
May 16, 2009, 04:02 PMI agree with mikeinewshot, Chinese people love sex just as much as anyone.
BTW, have you seen how many Chinese people are in the world?! Sex for the sake of procreation alone doesn't produce those kind of numbers ;)
panda2 / Panda Beer
May 18, 2009, 04:00 AMI agree with mikeinewshot and Calkins, Chinese people love sex just as much as anyone.
The ladies from their forties down sure do!!The older generation are not so open and free
Tal
May 19, 2009, 12:30 AMWell anyway it seems that I won't have the chance to learn from those "sex technique workshops" after all! According to this report Loveland has been demolished before it even opened!
Some more interesting info (for we endlessly prurient 老外 curious about Chinese attitudes to sex) in the article linked to. For example, (I cannot resist a quotation for reluctant clickers):
"...the demolition highlights conflicting views on sex in modern China, where a prudish attitude toward discussion of sexuality sits uneasily alongside an almost clinical approach to its physical aspects.
While pornography is banned and the idea of sex education largely unheard of, shops selling sex toys and related items stand out prominently in many neighbourhoods and sex outside marriage is widely tolerated.
Meanwhile, prostitution, although technically illegal, is widespread and the keeping of illicit mistresses among prominent businessmen and Communist Party officials is considered commonplace."
kettyhou
May 19, 2009, 11:05 AM那是因为中国人上一辈的人比较保守,保守的观念很根深蒂固.
shensw
June 02, 2009, 03:25 AM我们看老外很奇怪，原来老外看我们也是一样的。呵呵。还是咱们古人说得好，见怪不怪，其怪自败。
shuimengge
June 02, 2009, 05:58 AM人大多都只是看到世界的那一点，然后就开始发表自己并不成熟的意见，我们不能怪上面的意见怎么怎么样，因为他们都不懂，所以我们不能见怪。
没有几个人能看能中国，或者中国人。就边中国人自己都没有几个真正看懂自己的国家，还能高要求外国人吗？
太悠远的历史创造了太复杂的中国文化。
user42993
June 02, 2009, 06:32 AMIs there some kind of law that Chinese people can't talk about any given subject without knee-jerk mentioning that Chinese culture and history is so wildly different? It's boring to read and doesn't really apply to the discussion, and anyway I don't think it's true.
miantiao
June 02, 2009, 07:39 AM@shuimenge
对啊， 我们西方人都无知得咋有办法懂啊！难道我们怪物还能够思想、观察、听话、思考生命的意义什么的。我们就没戏了。我给你说哈，动作比话说的还要大声！
有的人出生缺乏幽默感，太严肃。你的帖子看起来有一点骄傲，看不起其他国家的文化，就觉得比不上祖国的，是吗？
有没有人曾告诉你，一个文化并不能说比其他的文化好、现代化、文明、高进化等等，原因很简单，每个文化从社会的需要、环境限制起出现和发展，各有各的特点和需要。
我们世界越来越国际化，这个过程对后代人很有挑战性，挑战就在保护传统文化习俗和同时进入新世界，每个文化必要寻求在这两点中的平衡。话说回来，再过了几个世纪，我们的世界大概就会有一个大文化，一大群人。
我就想知道一个东西，问你一下，好不？ 请给我们写下你对其他的国家有什么印象和理解。
中国文化却不是很复杂，反而就是不一样吧！你想说什么呀？我还有一个问题想要问你一下，毛泽东为什么执行毁灭旧文化的政策？请你加深我这个无知老头子的中国理解。
Tal
May 17, 2009, 09:13 AMmiantiao speaks the truth here, we can blame so much on the 1960s.
another interesting aspect of this subject might be how Chinese people view the sexual mores of westerners. it took me a while after I first came here to realise that many Chinese seem to consider westerners sexually promiscuous. you'll sometimes get people bringing up the subject of western 'broad-mindedness'.
at first I was a little amused. (then I just thought it was so unfair - lol - I'd led such a quiet life after all). then I realised that compared to many Chinese people, a westerner who might go through 2 or more 'long-term' partners before 'settling down' would be/seem promiscuous compared to them.
mikeinewshot
May 16, 2009, 05:10 AMI think the Chinese are not as straight laced as they are portrayed sometimes. When you get to know them, they enjoy sex as much as the rest of us! They don't flaunt it publically as much perhaps - I trait I rather like.