What use is there to learning Mandarin?

Hi Mark, I think those here actually working in in a Chinese environment should be able to answer that - so Lantian, Mike in Singapore etc. speak up! I also got the suspicision that jobs in China are primarily trainee and top management positions where Mandarin is considered "nice to have", because the interpreter does not make a big price-difference and those "high potentials" are shuffled to the next region shortly after.

I live in the United States, in the Puget Sound area of Washington state. It will be a long, long time before I ever get to visit China, and I doubt I'd be there for long. On the other hand, there's a huge Chinese speaking population in the Puget Sound. I get my hair done in a Vietnamese shop. I live by and shop in nearby several Asian grocery stores. I'm a musician, performer, writer, and overall geek. I work as a personal assistant to a mortgage broker. All those things are what motivate me to learn Mandarin, in various degrees. :)

Hi Mark, It's kind of interesting the way you phrased that question, "speak Chinese and requires that skill." I think in general it is not necessary to speak Chinese for management jobs, or if you are recruited over say in the financial sector or hotel management, nor to teach English. That said, life is easier if you do speak Chinese (at whatever level), communication is more effective, the experience has more depth, and more opportunities become available. Remember this, practically speaking, your Chinese will not be as good as the other millions of Chinese graduating ever year. So why pick YOU for your Chinese? Therefore, unless you are going to be an interpreter, you should focus your main energies on the profession/skillsets that bring you the most satisfaction and joy. The money follows. If that profession gives you an opportunity to work in China, and you enjoy Chinese, then study them together. It's a win-win situation at that point. 双赢！ I don't think that in my life studying anything, has ever brought me LESS money or opportunity. :) IMO The above sentence structure might be a little confusing, it means, ”Studying (any subject) has always brought me more opportunities."

see story about Goldman Sachs executive losing top job over poor (Chinese) language skills! [source Source:Shanghai Daily via China Economic Net]

in my environment (multinational company), expats tended to be in senior positions (general/regional/finance manager) where language is not a requirement. I think this is changing though, mainly because of the available pool of highly qualified mainland Chinese with experience in the West, as well as ABC and other 华侨 attracted to China.

For career purposes, knowing a foreign language is at best the icing on the cake. It's not the cake. Your other professional skills are what will get you hired. Few people get a job merely because of knowing a language, unless it's interpretation or translation. In the case of Chinese in particular, you're competing against flawless native speakers whose services will be more affordable than yours. One other thing: knowledge of a foreign language can sometimes be as much of a hindrance to career advancement as an asset. One Japanese CEO famously noted that if he had learned English when he was younger, he would never have advanced as far as he did within his company. It was precisely because people with English skills were hard to find and hard to replace that such people remained in lower-level positions within the company that truly required such skills, rather than advancing. After all, your chances for promotion depend not only on your own skills, but also on whether or not your company can find someone to replace you in your current position. Unfair but true. Mind you, this was more of a problem in the days of lifetime employment when people tended to stay within one organization for their entire careers, but it's still something to think about. I suspect that the very low level of Arabic proficiency within, say, the FBI is precisely because actually learning the language might be a career-limiting move. Me? I study Chinese for the same reason Captain Ahab pursued the white whale. Call me Aeshmael.

The degree to which speaking a foreign language often depends largely on the size of the company. I have a friend who is fluent Chinese that used to work for Dell. He was a manager there, but under-appreciated. After quitting that job, he found several manager positions (managing Chinese employees) in small companies. They wanted his foreigner perspective, but they could only hire him because he spoke Chinese.

Oh - of course I am talking about "executive trainees". Not those poor xerox-kulis and coffee-cookers. And regarding the level: I would expect that everything below fluency is of identical use: It might lift the mood for a short while. No difference whether you are 谢谢 and 你好 level or listening to Advanced podcasts. If you reach a basic fluency the benefits leap up though (which I was there).

Yes, and knowledge of the language (particularly when gained on-site, but not necessarily) typically comes hand in hand with knowledge of the culture, which usually proves invaluable to business.

John, yes, but that kind skill is so soft it will never get you into that dream position in China. That Balanced Scorecard wants to be filled with quanitative measures, not with real life requirements...

Well, I'm still looking for an employer who'll pay me to sit around all day looking up characters in the Kangxi dictionary and reading about non-Sinitic substrates in Yue dialects. (Prospective employers and patrons: my email's in my profile!) In the meantime, I'm working in a job where I'm expected to produce written output in English and Chinese (though primarily English) and to translate and proof translations where necessary. It has the benefit of being a "real job" while also requiring Mandarin proficiency. This isn't *why* I learned Chinese -- I just started studying for fun and ended up getting hooked -- but it's a job that I doubt very much I'd have gotten if I couldn't speak the language.

The motivation that keeps me at it day after day is purely the enjoyment. From a justification viewpoint however, Chinese will become increasingly important from a world trade point of view. Even if you can't speak well enough to negotiate directly, it puts you ahead of those who can't speak it at all. Besides, there are tactical advantages to having a reasonable fluency in a language while still using an interpreter :) I have a couple of friends at a Chinese technology company that is expanding globally. You can only get an engineering position there if you have a reasonable level of fluency in Chinese, otherwise it is basically a marketing (account manager) position.

Mark: There are many uses outside of just interest. - Translation: If you can get into it, it's fantastic money. - Teaching: John so aptly expounded on that point. - Consulting: Doing consulting work for American Companies in China, being the conduit between American and Chinese workers, while providing cultural insight to bridge the gaps between employees and management. - Marketing: Using Chinese language skills to market American products or services to the Chinese, or conversely, to market Chinese products to American consumers. - Copywriting: Going hand in hand with translation and marketing, writing marketing copy in Chinese that appeals to the Chinese sensibility. The burgeoning Chinese market is growing at an exponential rate, even after suffering some setbacks due to product recalls, the Chinese market is still the fastest growing market in the world. The possibilities are endless!

Over the years one takes to acquire a language the reasons for doing it can change. I started because it's beautiful, what further reason does anyone need|? Now I live in China so it is a survival thing.

Hi Mark, looking back at my previous post response, I think I was gearing it toward a new grad. I was using the m.cpod site to read and couldn't see your photo. Anyway, I agree wholeheartedly with John's comment. There are many companies that want to hire a foreigner for their perspectives and experience, but need some Chinese to communicate. I've noticed that as my Chinese has improved, people chat more with me and more opportunities, etc., naturally come up.