汉字不灭，中国必亡
Tal
October 31, 2009, 02:33 PM posted in General DiscussionWidely regarded as the greatest Chinese writer of the twentieth century, Lu Xun was so deeply unimpressed by the Chinese character-based writing system that he is reported to have said "if Chinese characters do not fade away, China will perish!". In his 1934 "An outsider's chats about written language" (menwai wentan）, he discussed the matter using the pseudonym Hua Yu, which means both "China's Prison" and "China's Language".
Lu Xun was by no means the first Chinese scholar to blame the writing system for his nation's backwardness. Indeed, Lu Xun had been preceded by dozens of individuals from the late-Qing period onward who had devised simple and more efficient writing systems, including alphabets, for the various Chinese languages.
In the essay Lu Xun favorably compares Latinization of Chinese to the kana-like phonetic Zhuyin Fuhao or bopomofo alphabet, which is still taught (although soon to be phased out) in Taiwan.
hzp119065521
November 01, 2009, 03:35 AMReply
香港以前是自由贸易港口,众所周知,在1700年以前世界就进入了海洋时代,所以自由贸易盛行,香港就是利用它的地理优势和免税优势聚集了大量的财富，才有今天的香港的繁华,台湾的繁华同韩国一样是来自美国的扶住
changye
November 01, 2009, 04:10 AMHi hzp119065521
I agree with you. And this is the very reason why I said, "it's not a matter of characters, but a matter of people and education".
Incidentally, let me correct a bit your comment. In the case of South Korea, exactly speaking, it should be "来自美国和日本的扶助".
changye
November 01, 2009, 05:58 AMHi hzp119065521
（汉语）发音干脆利索，英语 or other languages说得再好，总感觉还叽里呱拉的含乎不清。
This might be because you're not a native English speaker. I guess that American guys think just the opposite. To me, a native Japanese, both Chinese and English sounds always sound 叽里呱拉的含乎不清 (unclear, gabbling), hehe. Such is a language.
不象英语得几万词汇，而汉语有二三千字就能满足一般的阅读。
The line between characters and words in Chinese are not as clear as that in English. I think only knowing three thousand hanzi are not enough for reading. Besides characters, you have to learn tons of words made by combining Chinese characters.
If your claim were true, learning Chinese would be much easier!
Tal
November 01, 2009, 08:28 AMIn short, it's not a matter of characters, but a matter of people and education.
changye, I hear you, and basically I would agree. I posted this mostly because I'm interested in Lu Xun, and because I'd never heard of his stance on this issue before. (I didn't say I knew a lot about Lu Xun! hehe.) Also a good read I think if you're interested in China and things Chinese.
On the other hand, he does make some very good points. China is still a backward country outside the big cities, and being a mere 老外, (and therefore one who, living in China, must bear the brunt of much of such backwardness,) I cannot help but consider his reflections meaningful.
Oh and 老外朋友 shouldn't miss this amusing (and I think potentially very useful) phrasebook.
hzp119065521
November 01, 2009, 03:31 AMfirst，发音干脆利索，英语or other languages说得再好，总感觉还叽里呱拉的含乎不清。
second，只需少量的词就能满足需要，不象英语得几万词汇，而汉语有二三千字就能满足一般的阅读。汉语造新词也极为方便，无需新字。
third，表达精练，有一些特殊的效果为拼音类语言所不及。
但英语也有一些效果为汉语所不及。
bababardwan
November 01, 2009, 09:44 AMtal,
Interesting post mate. ：）
changye,
More ironically, Hong Kong is already destined to "perish" for other reason, hehe.
..我不明白。有什么意思？
miantiao
November 01, 2009, 10:24 AMwill hk become part of guangdong provence? will it become a special economic zone? will it be incorporated with macao to form a new provence?
will hkers have to drive on the right side of the road? and if so what disruptions to traffic will this cause? what about the enormous task of re-educating drivers? not to mention the massive task involved in revolutionising the current road system.
i guess hk characters will be simplified too?
changye
November 01, 2009, 10:57 AMHi bababardwan and miantiao
So-called "one country, two systems (一国两制)" policy (for Hong Kong) is going to be ended in 2047. What will happen to HK after 2047?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/One_country,_two_systems
whale
November 01, 2009, 02:31 PM汉字和英文各有各好处,对于中国人来说,学习自己的母语当然简单一些,对于英美国家,当然也不会觉的自己的语言是含糊不清的(其实也不简单 我用了三四年才学会说粤语---也就是香港话)
至于一国两制,其实我觉得中国政府虽然只是承诺了50年政策不变.但我相信就算五十年过后也不会不顾香港居民的意愿而随变对政策作出改变.如果真的是这样的话.也太小看中国的领导人了.
中国有句话叫做:"制大国如烹小鲜. "意思就是说如果你在煮小鱼的锅里乱搅动的话,那么你的小鱼肯定不能保持原有的形态而变的一团糟.
changye
November 01, 2009, 08:54 AMHi tal
There were "abolish Chinese characters" movements not only in China but also in Korea, Vietnam, and Japan in the 20th century. The movement succeeded in Korea and Vietnam, and fortunately enough, failed in China and Japan. Instead, China and Japan separately introduced simplified character sets after the war. Complexity of the shapes of Japanese kanji falls somewhere between 繁体字 and 简体字.
changye
November 01, 2009, 02:39 AMHi tal
There were a lot of intellectuals and national leaders in China who insisted to abolish Chinese characters, especially in the first half of the 20th century, including Mao Zedong (毛泽东) and Lu xun (鲁迅). In short, Chinese characters were a symbol of "vicious feudalism" for them and became a scapegoat.
Thankfully, their claims were later found to be wrong. Ironically, Taiwan and Hong Kong have (or had?) been more successfull economically than mainland China, even though they have been using traditional Chiense characters. More ironically, Hong Kong is already destined to "perish" for other reason, hehe.
In short, it's not a matter of characters, but a matter of people and education.