2010 study goals/resolutions?

good luck!

There are two Nanda s in China. The other one is Nankai University, Tianjin. One who isn't 南京人 may be confused which Nanda you are mentioning~

if you'd own the side, I tend to agree ;)

No. That's exactly why I just clarified. Please let's not continue stuffing words into each other's mouths; it's not constructive, it is tiresome.

In some other posts I had the feeling that such hints to other resources from a non-subscriber are considered somehow "shameless"...

Thanks Hape for the recommendations. Two more very useful strings to the Mandarin learning bow.

I just want to clarify here, I was not insinuating that you were doing shameless PR for competitors. Of course Slow-Chinese isn't a CPod competitor. I'd had it bookmarked myself weeks before your mention here; it was mentioned by another poddie (who it was I'm afraid I can't recall at the moment).

slowgerman.com is a simply great! You are not only learning the language, but also a lot about Germany and us, the crazy Germans...

Dear Zhen, hope it is a good read. Hope I will see you this year in China ;-).

Wow just now noticed this Baba. I don't think your transcribing work is unfinished! I only want to do a translation for myself and not for all my transcripts but probably the next one I take on (the one I'm doing now really was biting off way more than I could chew). But yeah--a translation debate--would be cool I guess! And draining. 反正你真厉害！加油！

"Transcribe an Advanced or Media lesson then translate it into English, to see if I really am understanding what's being said as opposed to just hearing and type-converting okay."

hehe,zhen I now see my work on the Advanced transcript is unfinished then.I will provide an English translation in the next few days as soon as I get a chance.I wonder if it'll promote a translation debate,hehe [hopefully...that'd be cool]

Thank you suxiaoya. Going to study right now...

@eupnea63355 - Great that you're feeling inspired (really hoped this post would serve this purpose for at least a few people!!)

I wish you all the best for keeping your nose on the grindstone - no efforts are futile, I am 100% sure of that ;-)

henning, that sounds encouraging!

eupnea,

The news headlines are usually by a magnitude harder than the actual articles. What helped me a lot were goulnik's news - for a while I forced myself to decipher an article a day, looking up each and every unknown word and character. And it quickly got better.

Actually, this news stuff is not as hard as it seems to at the beginning, because there is a lot of repetition of the same reoccuring language. By now I read he google-news on my iphone without a dictionary (with varying degrees of understanding).

Acutally, news are by far easier than your typical Chinese novel.

Henning, unfortunately, I never get 8 hours sleep, because that requires 9 hours in bed, and I don't have 9 hours to just spend in bed! I need a longer day! Add the fact that I am convinced my body clock is about 2 hours behind everyone else's... Am often just too tired to learn Chinese :(

呵呵，我对那个有关系

As a night-owl I can sympathise totally. I get most things done (including studying during lunch breaks and odd free moments then just as I'm about to head off to my bunk I get an annoying urge to take one last look at Cpod. Two hours laters I'm dragging myself up the stairs for an inadequate amount of sleep interspersed with Canadian Pete phrases swirling through my dreams... I'm not sure this is good. I resolve to try to follow Sebire's example...

B**ger look at the time!!!!

Got to say, I'm TOTALLY guilty of number 2 and 1 (and number 3 and 7 while, we're there :P hehe) I tend to do a lot of studying at night too. Although it does work effectively, it makes me veeery cranky in the morning, much to the dislike of my family :P hehe I guess it just depends if you're a night owl or a day-time learner, but I've always worked better late at night.

hehe ^^ It was the Chinese writing that's always fascinated me, hence the obsession with art and doodling :P It was only when I went to Hong Kong and it actually occurred to me that I could learn Chinese if I reeeeeally tried and that it wasn't some off-limits language :P haha so I tried it and discovered ChinesePod and that's when my life (*hem* obsession :P) began! ^^ haha

sebire,

for me 2 is the result of learning Chinese - the more I learn in the morning, the more work shifts into the evening. So in this case, less sleep is a good sign from a Chinese learning perspective...

yeah, Skritter's kinda been the biggest part in my CPod learning and it's definitely been worth it ^^ (treated myself to an upgrade for a month :P) but sadly it's coming to an end so I'm frantically trying to find a good enough substitute :( but I don't think I can find one :( I just loved the idea of Skritter, especially since I was using my graphics tablet with it! :D that just made it more fun, plus it really got the strokes into my head. I've got a bit of an obsession with learning the characters :P they're just like miniature doodles with a story to me, which I love! ^^ hehe

cool.Have you played around with skritter yet? It'll be interesting seeing how you're doodling helps you progress.I love the idea. :)

hehe ^^ It was the Chinese writing that's always fascinated me, hence the obsession with art and doodling :P It was only when I went to Hong Kong and it actually occurred to me that I could learn Chinese if I reeeeeally tried and that it wasn't some off-limits language :P haha so I tried it and discovered ChinesePod and that's when my life (*hem* obsession :P) began! ^^ haha

great stuff.I think if you can achieve number 2 I suspect you'll be ahead of most of us,but you are the doodlemonster so I'm sure you can do it.Jiayou!! :)

谢谢 Matthiask！ Looking forward to seeing what happens with 丁力波。

帕兰卡！古波！加油！：）

Hey mjvito. I'm going to steal #3 from you. I hope it doesn't end in divorce for me -haha. Good luck to you all.

Great resolutions! Look forward to meeting you when you visit Shanghai :)

文登，这个计划你已经实现了，你真棒~~~

我今后打算帖子多中文，少英文

其实，当然咯，我开玩笑。我的第一新年决议是成听写了一个中文播客高级课程。

totally agree. 35 touches a game, minimum three goals and 8 tackles, shirtfronts at own discretion.

Bababardwan - mmm, nice, good to get some attainable goals settled on, right? I look forward to celebrating your achievements! Keep us updated!! ;-)

yep,thanks heaps.I'm on my way already.Next year I'll work out which languages they're from so I'm saying 'em to the right folk.Gracias amigo.

comestas. konichiwa. does that count? Hola!

Well I believe I heard John saying they were looking into emailing us when someone responds to our post, feasible now that we're threaded and linked and all. I think most poddies would still complain that it isn't working! in that it hasn't solved the problem of people like us here in this conversation going on way too long ...

Zhen

Your views on this are interesting - thanks for the response. I think you might be a special case (don't take offence!) - a translator and a fluent English speaker. I think that your counterparts in China share your sentiments about bad translations in China. So I guess you could say I am guilty in my ramblings (Hape and others will be after me) of over-generalizing. And of course picking on Chinese translations in Australia I am being a bit of a smart aleck. Public notices etc. in any language are easy targets. I pick up Government brochures in Chinese all the time and then provide feedback on their websites, like 'Why is this brochure only available in unsimplified characters? Or 'Unsimplified characters are simply un-readable on this website. Why do you persist with unsimplified characters when every Chinese person you are targeting can read and understand simplified characters?'

By the way, we are really testing threaded comments here - it is now officially impossible to keep track of answers to your posts. He he. (I came across this one from you quite by accident.) The solution is a personal text message to your mobile phone when someone responds to your post. :-)

sorry to put you on the spot like that mate.Just ignore my questions if they're awkward [it wasn't my intention of course...just chatting here ] ,hehe :)

"I don't know if any poddies know how many generations of Chinese people have been born in Australia"

I don't either but naturally the gold rushes of the 1850's sprang to mind.If we were to say randomly that a generation is 25 years then that would suggest that it's 6 or 7 generations,but there are no doubt flaws in this stab at it.Anyhow,I just looked up to see if any Chinese came before those gold rushes and it seems there may have even been some with the first fleet,but more definitely there was a Cantonese chap called Mak Sai Ying who arrived in 1818.Now that would be an interesting family tree to follow.I wonder if his descendants even realise that[if he has any].Imagine tracing back your family tree and discovering this chap.Of oourse many are likely very Caucasian looking as he married local lasses and as he was the first.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mak_Sai_Ying

Yes Baba. 不好意思又让你说明。 And again I do of course know what you are saying about Changye, he's just so high-level it's hard to see him as having any difficulty communicating in English. But you will see him ask for clarification sometimes. I think I just wanted to say that he's not just "being modest", like we are widely perceived in our culture to be prone to.

And of course many native speakers need to ask others for clarification at times. I think this is why you yourself take such pains to explain things and talk questions through. Thank you for that.

I thought I might get the question: 'Do I consider an elderly Chinese person in Australia a Western translator?' and was hoping to avoid it. My point is that you can find bad Chinese translations in Australia, due to a mis-reading of the different cultures. You would think that getting a Chinese person to do the translation in Australia is akin to asking an Australian in China to do the translation. But in this case I speculate about the Chinese person's ability to undertake a culturally relevant translation for use in mainland China. So .. in answer to your question, the translation is wrong or inappropriate because the translator does not understand the cultural meanings of words or, in this case, does not understand the words that are required for a successful translation. If they are Chinese they may have made these errors because they are overly 'Westernised' or because they are just out of touch with life in China. I don't know if any poddies know how many generations of Chinese people have been born in Australia - I don't off hand but Chinese families have been in Australia for a long time. Much longer than my family.

Actually, a number of Chinese Australians have told me about their difficulties in visits to China.* Some have said that they would never come, for one reason or another but essentially it comes down to cultural differences.

* Some Chinese residents of Darwin talk about the cultural difficulties associated with a visit to Sydney! One told me that Chinese people keep speaking to him in Chinese. Not knowing a word of Chinese it got him quite angry.

thanks zhen,

"I'm not saying I can't see the humor in unintentionally funny English translations"

..sure,and I'm sure you realise I wasn't suggesting one way or the other [in fact I suspected you would see the humour] but rather just seeking clarification.

"no reason to doubt he's just telling it like it is for him"

..yeah,I wasn't doubting him either..I take him at his word too..as I said I just found it suprising based on his record number of posts all of which are very clear and his general communication which demonstrates a clear understanding of what others are saying.Put it this way,his struggle is well hidden.Anyhow,all I can say is how lucky I am that English is the lingua franca or I'd be up the creek without a paddle.

Baba I'm not saying I can't see the humor in unintentionally funny English translations, in fact I can. The ones in other countries I have no stake in and therefore I can enjoy no problem, not as a westerner obviously but as an English speaker. (If I did see the sign at the gynecological ward in the Chinese hospital (!!) I do think I would have gone to someone and told them it should be changed ... but not to tell them it's stupid, how could they. Just explain that the term they used is extremely inappropriate)
But poor translations I see in Japan dismay me because they're personal, it's about work but not just that, it's communication disability, a botched attempt at making oneself understood to others, something I'm sure many people who grow up bilingual / bicultural feel personally about. And I just cannot see why they can't be avoided after all these decades of doing it. Also like I suggested above, we don't see many "gems" anymore if at all.

Regarding Changye's English, I have no reason to doubt he's just telling it like it is for him. Yes it's surprising, based on his contributions in English. But I think there must be just too much, if he were to try to ask for clarification here--much more than the odd elusive nuance. I say this only because although it's great to have it here as a lingua franca I too find English tricky, more so every day.

thanks zhen for sharing your perspective.Interesting.Can I ask you if you have in all honesty not found some of it at least amusing?

changye,

I think I've seen you express that once or twice before about your English and again it surprises me because from your posts you honestly wouldn't know it.It must be just the odd subtlety or nuance that eludes you I'm guessing from what you say.Why don't you just ask which bits you're unclear on?

I feel like joining this discussion, but I'd better give up the idea. Firstly, kanderson's comment is too short for me to get the point. Secondly, other guys' comments are too long for me to read.... Yeah, I know it's definitely not your fault, but it's just that I don't have a good command of English. I really envy you guys for being fluent in English! I mean it.

Bodawei, Baba--just offering my perspective as an Asian person. I have been seeing bad English translations, slogans and ad copy in Japan for nearly 40 years now. It's a lot cleaner now than when I was growing up (well, it was probably better in the old days in terms of material to find hilarity in). Japanese are very sensitive to being told by westerners that the way we do things are funny, backward or unacceptable (spitting on the street, urinating in public--you saw men do that all the time when I was growing up). It pains us and we then try hard to change so that we're not seen that way any more. Many people and companies now do bother to try to get pretty good, or better, translations from experts (westerners, or native speakers, will not necessarily get you good translations obviously; if their understanding of the subtleties and intent in the original Japanese or their cultural literacy is low they will fail despite their good English). Note I say many, not all. So yes even today, I am still amazed and disheartened to see corporate and public messages in bad English all over the place.
And each and every time, my immediate reaction will be, "What is the matter with these people? What year is it now? Why don't they get someone like myself to help them? How come they're OK with releasing a sign like that?". Each and every time I think that.
This reaction of mine, when I do have the opportunity, I share with clients (well I get a bit more selective in my wording and phrasing) and other, non-bilingual Japanese who will often not be able to truly empathize. It is essentially the reaction you (Bodawei) said reveals a sense of Western superiority; it's the same reaction as that of the user who responded to your post in the "Fire in the Hallway" discussion. I only say "someone like myself" instead of "westerner" because I happen to be a Japanese bilingual translator and these are the kinds of things I think about all the time. I will say again, much of the matter is how the viewpoint was expressed; the way it was expressed there was probably insensitive.
But if a westerner came to Japan and I heard him say, "I wonder why so many English signs in Japan are written so ridiculously. I would imagine that if people are going to display a sign written in a foreign language that they would either make sure it's written properly or decide not to include the foreign language portion altogether from fear of looking stupid" within my earshot--you know I would say, "Yeah, beats me, why people can't be bothered to ask someone like me, do whatever, just get it right." I would readily agree, and take offense only if his tone were really rude. I mean, I think the question is valid, in all my first-hand experience of Japan.

But then I suppose the question arises--do I have a disagreeable sense of superiority over fellow Japanese (and Asians) who are not fluent in English? I do realize that I may be perceived by other Japanese that way, it is something I need to keep in mind.
Just my thoughts, another perspective. And I know it is not the same thing as an outsider, a westerner who may have little first-hand knowledge of how we people in Asia live, commenting on the way we do things.

ah,just lost my reply to this twice.Anyway,I was trying to post:

oh yeah,in China it will often came back to face,hey.I've heard that sort of thing before but thanks for elaborating on your point and making it clear.

I see.I had not read chanelles article in detail yet but I see now that it was a German sinologist that was accountable for the translation.I would be interested to know the details of how he came up with this...was he transcribing something recited to him verbally...did he make it up himself,or did he merely copy it from a dodgy source he didn't well understand.Regardless I suppose there result is the same.

Your example is very interesting mate.I've seen you mention this before but I'd still be very interested in what culturally appropriate travel advice you have in this regard.In your example though,are you including a "venerable Chinese citizen from the colonial era being approached to come out of retirement" as a western translator?

Ah - these two matters you raise are related. In the West we may be less likely to 'post' a ridiculous translation because we may be happy to get it checked and re-checked by an expert. In China there is more deference than we experience in the West. For example, our 'big' boss gave us a Christmas message in English that had errors in it; he has several people working for him who have far superior English skills. I assume that either they were not asked for advice, or they were reluctant to point out the errors.

If this 'analysis' is true we may be less likely to see 'stupid' Chinese in the West. Chanelle has given us one example. I have a personal example that is not laugh out loud funny, but funny for a Chinese learner like myself. I have a gluten free diet and joined the Coeliac Society in Australia which provides 'travel advice' for people going to China. The 'travel advice' is alarmingly inappropriate - totally useless in mainland China. Dangerously useless when you consider that for some people eating gluten is a serious health problem. It is couched in laughably archaic and grovelling terms that suggests that it was written by a Chinese person who has not been here for thirty or forty years (perhaps never been to China?) Even native speakers have difficulty understanding it. It gives a misleading and inaccurate definition of coeliac disease from a Chinese dictionary, when the disease does not occur in China, so trying to discuss the disease with a doctor let alone a cook is a waste of time. It gives an agonisingly long list of things that cannot be eaten, many of them are Western foods unknown to the typical Chinese cook, and so tiresomely detailed that no busy Chinese cook would have time to read it. How did such a piece of elaborate and flowery copperplate ever get written in Australia? I have visions of a venerable Chinese citizen from the colonial era being approached to come out of retirement and write for the Coeliac Society. I offered them a culturally appropriate 'travel advice', based on personal and practical experience, but my offer was declined. Maybe face is important even in Australia. :-)

yeah mate,we're on the same page here.I agree with that...there will always be some ignorant and arrogant folk[crikey,I'd like to think they're the exception rather than the rule here but you've no doubt got more experience in this department than I so I'll defer to that],but I'm also glad you see my point that some of us enjoy these for humours sake only without any hint of racism or superiority.

I wasn't too clear what you meant by:

"Whether we would post ridiculous translations is another matter - our culture determines different behaviours in these situations. I do not see these different behaviours in the West as necessarily superior."

Apart from reading fellow poddies posts [and I'm not at a level that I could confidently spot their mistakes let alone pick out any funny secondary meaning] I have no experience of westerners translations that I can recall.Do you have any examples I can check out? I'd love to see if I could indeed spot the error and find humour in it.

Took me a few looks to discover the "K K",thought at first was part of the character. I also find this type of characters difficult to decipher!

I need to explain what I mean by 'Western superiority' in my post above - once again Barbs I can rely on you to keep me on my toes! :-) First let me say that many of these signs are funny 'in their own right' as you say, and many people enjoy the humour 'in its own right'. I could not help myself smiling when I saw a sign at the entrance to the gynaecological ward of a Chinese hospital which said 'C**t Examination'. I think I am laughing at the inappropriateness of the language.

But I think that many native English speakers react to these badly translated signs with either 'How dumb can you get?' or 'Why don't they ask a Westerner for help?' [I have often heard both comments expressed by foreigners here in China. I have even seen both these views expressed recently on ChinesePod.] It is this latter reaction that I think reveals a sense of Western superiority. There is an implication in these comments that no Westerner would be so stupid as to post such a ridiculous translation.

In my view Westerners are just as capable of ridiculous translations. We make mistakes for similar reasons - we don't understand the underlying cultural meanings of language. In some cases we don't even understand the superficial meanings. Whether we would post ridiculous translations is another matter - our culture determines different behaviours in these situations. I do not see these different behaviours in the West as necessarily superior.

As an aside, I quite often get passages served to me in university assignments that have been machine translated - I get a smile out of these either because there is an unintended message, or because they make absolutely no sense at all. My students are not stupid or inferior - in fact they are well educated in cross-cultural communication. They are just struggling with a fiendishly difficult foreign language - just as we are.

thanks chanelle.Yeah,you're absolutely right.that KK was the best clue..I should have looked closer.I find it much harder to read those nontyped Hanzi.Wow,a further challenge.

If you look at the upper right corner you see 重金， which means rich / huge money / very expensive, if you look a bit more left you see K K , below you see 春玉女： so I figured it should be from top to bottom and from right to left (with the translation from hanzismatter in mind).

thanks,but if it's bottom to top then why do you start in the upper [top] right corner? I guess that means it's from right to left too then.

Think from top - bottom and start in uppper right corner.(edited: too much typo's this morning getting a coffee :-) !, yes meant to say top>bottom).

thanks chanelle,it's working now.Yeah,I have seen that here before but I could never make out the characters too clearly.Do you know which way they are read?

Sorry, it is a typo: an extra h in the http :-)

This should be ok...and

here the translation...

chanelle,

I can't open that link because a message pops up about the http not being associated with any programme.I'm in Oz so I don't think it's a firewall problem.

This is posted here before I think, but still think the （wrong）translation in

this article hilarious and good example of we get it wrong all the time :-).

"some of this humour feeds off a sense of Western superiority"

...ya reckon mate? Well I suppose there will always be racists but surely in general they are just funny in their own right without racist overtones,even when recognising they're generally doing a much better job of it than most of us could do in reverse.

"we stuff up Chinese translations in the West (but that is not considered funny by most Westerners.)"

..of course there would be plenty of cases of this but I've not seen any,or at least not any where I'd spot the mistake.I would suspect the reason we wouldn't find it funny is that we wouldn't "get it" as our understanding of the language is not deep enough.I think not all translation stuff ups are funny..it is more generally the ones that can take on a secondary unintended amusing meaning and this is where we wouldn't get it.

"interesting signs in Chinese, with something to learn about the language or culture."

...yeah,I realised that.Great idea mate.Jiayou :)

@kanderson91

Sorry I missed your question (and Barbs comment on the same point) -

I need to make it clear that my intention with these posts is to find interesting signs in Chinese, with something to learn about the language or culture. I invite English translations and comment on the Chinese expressions.

My intention is not to search for funny English translations.

There are plenty of sites sporting crazy English translations. Some of them are indeed amusing. I also think that some of this humour feeds off a sense of Western superiority. I think that we stuff up Chinese translations in the West (but that is not considered funny by most Westerners.) The kind of stuff-up you see in the West, and the reason for the stuff-up, is specific to our culture.

(I have already broken my own rule about English translations in the 'Fire in the Hallway' lesson.)

I have made a Group for this purpose - See for example Groups > Interest > 牌子 (Signs) > 平平安安，高高兴兴.

I get it. I recommend 家乐福 (Carrefour) - I know it doesn't sound very exciting but I have bought phones and batteries there really cheap (am I sounding cheap?) and it is the marked price. The phone markets are kind of terrifying (you spend more time hanging onto your wallet than looking for phones), like the first floor of Chunking Mansions. Do I sound like I'm getting old?

heehee! I don't like mine because it is rather bulky by today's standards and the batteries die after I estimate 4 pictures. I also need a new phone soon, and plan to buy these two things in one fell swoop. I don't need a fancy camera, just one that won't die when I want to take a picture!

@Orangina

My camera is a Panasonic DMC-LZ2 bought in July 2006 for under US$200, current estimated market value $10. I carry it on my person most days, just slips in a pocket; never use a camera case. The camera is totally bashed about. It takes standard AA batteries so you can always have power. Generic SD memory cards so you'll never run out of memory. It has about three different settings that I use - standard, close-up and fast. Occasionally I use the movie setting. I'm thinking of replacing it; see what I can get for $200 now. Your new camera will of course take better photos but I like to take less than a second to take most photos, relatively unobtrusively. Eg. saw a string quartet the other night, playing inside a donut shop. SNAP. Earlier in the day saw some whole ducks for sale in the supermarket that looked like they'd been run over on the free-way. SNAP. This camera is ideal for the quick snap. This is a long way of saying use what you have now. Times a-wasting!

ok, so an update on how this is going thus far:

1~ haven't worked on this project in a while...

2~ see #1... but I am making my usual progress at my usual pace, so that is goodish.

3~ today for the first time I feel like my chinese has made progress since I moved to China 2 months ago. Not monumental progress, but progress nonetheless. I don't feel I was using new words, but the words I know were flowing easier. And I am able to make up sentences that I know are all wrong but intelligible. I see the look on chinese faces and I can tell they feel the way I felt in America when my foreign friends made an honest effort in communication. I think I have reached the "cute" stage. I am not doing it right, but the effort is apparent which makes the other party take the trouble to understand what I am saying and communication somehow magically happens. And they have a silly smirk because they are trying not to laugh at me. I appreciate them holding it back. ;-)

4~ definitely not doing one transcript a week. I will really try for one a month. And be warned, I am starting at Intermediate (Subway Announcements) so none of this Advanced lesson business the bababardwan somehow pulls off! (加油 baba)

5~ no decent camera as of yet. But I have 11 1/2 more months to get one.

大家新年快乐！

我的新年愿望是想提高我的汉语水平，我应该抓住每一个练习说中文的机会，还要多练习造句。。。。我每天都在读书，但是我发现造句对我来说是个难点。

Yes, definitely. Alas, I will be heading to America this summer, and besides, my Chinese wife isn't so into moving to a city just because it will improve my Chinese. (But of course I can practice with my wife.) I think when we make our triumphant return to China in the future, I will try to steer us away from Shanghai. Since my wife isn't Shanghainese, that shouldn't be a problem.

I think you may be more likely to find someone with those interests, and no desire to learn english if you go to a community outside of the large cities. For example, the city I am in, I have found people who have no interest in learning English.

What happened to your photos of signs in Chinese, bodawei? :)

My resolution is just to get a LOT of chinese practice in, so as to be able to have a good basic conversation by the Autumn, when with any luck, I will be going to China for a very important trip!