Does it really work? [Google.cn]
matthiask
January 13, 2010, 03:12 PM posted in General DiscussionGoogle seems to change it's policy:
http://googleblog.blogspot.com/2010/01/new-approach-to-china.html
And how long do you think it will work?
matthiask
January 14, 2010, 07:07 PMHenning, I doubt that. Google has enough resources and knowledge to make itself a success, also in china. Look how long they fed YouTube already, just to get entrance into that domain.
Googles currency is not money, it's information. 30% Market share is already a huge amount of information, considering the short time frame.
bodawei
January 13, 2010, 04:02 PM@matthiask
Care to enlighten us? I heard on the news today that Google was threatening to leave the market here. (Is this the subject of the blog?)
But I am assuming that this will not affect anyone using gmail (which is on gmail.com) and it will not alarm China greatly (except to the extent that it is bad press) because Google has a modest slice of the local search market. But the Western commentators were opining that it would bring the CCP to its knees, so to speak. Very excited they were.
matthiask
January 13, 2010, 04:05 PMto summarize the article:
China Government tries to hack Google and 20 other companies, Google sees it.
Google refuses to comply with the self-censorship.
Google is willing to draw back it's efforts in China.
So changye, your worries are well-grounded.
The original question: is it really true, did china turn off the censorship of its results?
simonpettersson
To be clear: it doesn't actually say that the Chinese government was behind the attacks on the human rights activists' accounts.
matthiask
well, it implies
bodawei
January 13, 2010, 04:08 PMHi Changye, Yes I guess they could retaliate, but who would it impress? The Chinese people themselves - would they care if Google.com was blocked? I can't see it having much economic impact. It would certainly upset a few foreigners living locally; I'm not sure that the foreign set are in their sights are they? I think that we are collateral damage in these affairs.
changye
January 13, 2010, 04:11 PMThere is no way Google can win the battle.
simonpettersson
Google can do anything. That's a fundamental law of nature. If nothing else, they'll start a competitive China based on Open Source principles and in the end, everyone will migrate there. Of course, to do so, they must sign an agreement that Google owns any money or property they acquire whilst in Gchina.
simonpettersson
January 13, 2010, 04:56 PMTo be clear: it doesn't actually say that the Chinese government was behind the attacks on the human rights activists' accounts.
simonpettersson
January 13, 2010, 05:00 PMGoogle can do anything. That's a fundamental law of nature. If nothing else, they'll start a competitive China based on Open Source principles and in the end, everyone will migrate there. Of course, to do so, they must sign an agreement that Google owns any money or property they acquire whilst in Gchina.
matthiask
January 13, 2010, 05:01 PMwell, it implies
changye
January 13, 2010, 04:01 PMWhat makes me worry is that all the Googles, English and Japanese ones included, might be blocked after Google withdraws from the Chinese market.
bodawei
Hi Changye, Yes I guess they could retaliate, but who would it impress? The Chinese people themselves - would they care if Google.com was blocked? I can't see it having much economic impact. It would certainly upset a few foreigners living locally; I'm not sure that the foreign set are in their sights are they? I think that we are collateral damage in these affairs.
changye
That's right. Only we foreign guys worry about that.
jeffro
January 14, 2010, 01:15 AMChina is changing. That's not news. Google gives it a push potentially loosing millions - that's news.
I look forward to hearing the full story, the details that are kept from us, the details that motivate Google's execs.
Freedom of information (translation please)
加油
changye
January 14, 2010, 04:45 AM"Google's copyright infringement" has recently been one of the hottest issues here in the PRC, which is highly publicized through TV and newspapers every day.
Google is just "a villain" who infringes Chinese authors' copyrights in the eye of ordinary Chinese people. Please remember that Chinese people respect intellectual property rights very much, as far as their OWN rights concerned.
In short, this is already a battle the PRC government can't afford to lose, especially in front of their nationalistic and hysteric volatile people. Chinese leaders are not allowed to lose face by succuming to external pressure, which is the last thing they do.
Google is destined to lose. Nobody can beat a rich autocrat, hehe.
xiaophil
Do you happen to have any sources about the 'Google is just a villain who infringes Chinese author's copyrights' statement you said (not in Japanese, hehe)? I'm a bit curious.
I'm wondering if baidu is blocked in any countries? If it isn't, why not? Half the reason people go to it is to illegally download music and watch pirated movies. I think the least free nations can do is enforce copyright laws.
jedda
January 14, 2010, 04:59 AMproperty rights! what a joke. 蜗居
xiaophil
January 14, 2010, 05:06 AMDo you happen to have any sources about the 'Google is just a villain who infringes Chinese author's copyrights' statement you said (not in Japanese, hehe)? I'm a bit curious.
I'm wondering if baidu is blocked in any countries? If it isn't, why not? Half the reason people go to it is to illegally download music and watch pirated movies. I think the least free nations can do is enforce copyright laws.
matthiask
January 14, 2010, 06:59 AMsimonpettersson
January 14, 2010, 07:09 AMFrom what I understand, Google isn't actually making much money in China, and this is turning out to be a huge PR boost for them.
Of course, that doesn't change that it's a bold move. Good on Google.
henning
January 14, 2010, 07:14 AMThere might be a simple explanation for Google's move: It is not making any money in China and is also not expecting to do so in the future. But the rather unpleasent (business) decision is now sold as a heroic move.
The message is clearly not directed at the Chinese audience but at the West - Google had tons of bad press in the recent year (as an example: just check out this week's issue of the Spiegel). And now they even have Obama as their testimonial.
一举两得
xiaophil
January 14, 2010, 12:07 AMHmmm, I think there must be something going on here that isn't obvious.
I agree with Changye. Google probably won't win this. It is just so mind-boggling, though, The way they handled this, i.e. publicly implying that it is because the Chinese government hacked into their system, is a big no-no. We all know that the Chinese government doesn't react well to losing face. How can Google possibly think this is a good tactic? It seems to me they are willing to throw it all away. But Google at present has at least 32% of the market in China. Why would they throw that away? Is it because they are really trying to do the right thing? (Unlikely.) Is it because the are idiots? (More likely but less likely.) Something else is going on. I really am dumbfounded as to what that 'something else' could be. I have however, managed to develop one theory.
Google is going to release a new OS. If memory serves me, it relies a lot on Google's internet services. If it turns out to be a hit, Chinese consumers will want a piece of the fun. Imagine the shame that will result when only pirated versions that can't even access the online goodies are available in China. Perhaps Google is betting that the Chinese government will be forced to compromise at that moment and then Google will come out in a stronger position than before.
It seems like an incredible risk to me, though. I can't help but thinking my theory is unlikely.
At any rate, it seems Google's move was designed to generate publicity. I feel their plans are being severely hampered by the coverage of the earthquake in Haiti.
simonpettersson
From what I understand, Google isn't actually making much money in China, and this is turning out to be a huge PR boost for them.
Of course, that doesn't change that it's a bold move. Good on Google.
changye
January 13, 2010, 03:47 PMThe site is blocked here in the PRC........