When should I use 里 and 中?
xiaophil
January 21, 2010, 08:54 AM posted in I Have a Question
大家好!
I am never too confident when trying to translate something like the following into Chinese:
- In humankind's history, there has yet to be a man who has gone to Mars.
My problem is specifically the ‘in ________' part. It seems to me that when speaking Chinese, sometimes 里 and 中are both used to represent something in progress, or to define a period of time. For example:
1. 电影里的暴力镜头violence shown in films.
2. 那次军事体育比赛中,During that military sports competition,
I would like to know,is there a difference between 里 and 中 in these kinds of cases? It seems to me that 中 is more for events that are processes, but I have no idea if that is right or not.
首先谢谢你们!
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zhenlijiang
January 22, 2010, 09:24 AMI know this post is only about 里 and 中, but as already mentioned I also think a lot about the choice of 上, and also 之间.
Noticed this in a comment of David's today:
她老是在工作上生活中感到有压力
How effortlessly native speakers do this!
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xiaophil
January 21, 2010, 09:40 AMThere is a QW? It seems to me I remember it now, but when I used the search function, I couldn't find it. I'll search harder. Thanks!
UPDATE: Ah yes, found it. Seems like a useful lesson. However, it seems mostly concerned with concrete objects rather than occurrences in time. Will give it a listen, though.
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zhenlijiang
January 21, 2010, 10:39 AMI know what you mean. I made this lesson request six months ago:
LEVEL: QW
TOPIC: Reviewing how to say "In ~" "On ~".
NOTES: How to say for instance, "the author discusses this point extensively IN this paragraph". Can't seem to think of any other examples now. I'm not sure when 里 / 上 / 当中 etc. are most appropriate, when 在 is/isn't needed and such. Hope my meaning is clear.
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changye
January 21, 2010, 12:30 PMI think that you can use both 里 and 中 in your example sentences,and 中 is more formal than 里.
电影里的暴力镜头/那次军事体育比赛中/在人类的漫长历史中
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changye
January 21, 2010, 12:33 PMin this paragraph ...... 在这个段落中(里)........?
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dunderklumpen
January 21, 2010, 09:32 AMHi xiaophil,
I don't have a good answer but I found these examples on nciku:
- In the long history of humankind (and animal kind, too) those who learned to collaborate and improvise most effectively have prevailed. 在人类(和动物)的漫长历史中,那些懂得有效协作与随机应变的往往占据着优势。
There is a QW on 里, 内 and 中 in the cpod archive.
The best I could come up with myself was "还没有人去过Mars"...
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xiaophil
There is a QW? It seems to me I remember it now, but when I used the search function, I couldn't find it. I'll search harder. Thanks!
UPDATE: Ah yes, found it. Seems like a useful lesson. However, it seems mostly concerned with concrete objects rather than occurrences in time. Will give it a listen, though.
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zhenlijiang
I know what you mean. I made this lesson request six months ago:
LEVEL: QW
TOPIC: Reviewing how to say "In ~" "On ~".
NOTES: How to say for instance, "the author discusses this point extensively IN this paragraph". Can't seem to think of any other examples now. I'm not sure when 里 / 上 / 当中 etc. are most appropriate, when 在 is/isn't needed and such. Hope my meaning is clear.
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xiaophil
Your meaning is clear. I guess maybe we can say how to use the different particles you just mentioned when NOT speaking of concrete, truly enclosed places, i.e. abstract cases.
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changye
in this paragraph ...... 在这个段落中(里)........?
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zhenlijiang
haha so which is it Changye??
But I think I see how 在人类的历史中 is generally more appropriate than 在人类的历史里, as Xiaophil says when you're talking about a process over a period of time you'd probably say 中.
Re 那次军事体育比赛(中), wouldn't it depend on what the sentence is about? During that military sports competition--(what follows?)
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changye
I also think 历史中 is more appropriate than 历史里, especially in the case such as "历史中的演变", but I think you can also say 历史里. As for 比赛中(or 里), I think both can mean "in" and "during".
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zhenlijiang
January 21, 2010, 02:13 PMDunderklumpen I'm getting slightly different numbers from yours so maybe I'm doing it a bit differently (a different google? I don't know).
I just wanted to ask, if you have the time could I bug you to also run the same search for
"在人类的历史上"?
I think that will also get a lot of hits.
Also "在人类历史上".
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changye
January 21, 2010, 02:22 PMI also think 历史中 is more appropriate than 历史里, especially in the case such as "历史中的演变", but I think you can also say 历史里. As for 比赛中(or 里), I think both can mean "in" and "during".
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xiaophil
January 22, 2010, 01:48 AMI feel like 中 is the correct choice for expressing events, processes in progress. See below.
- This area is under construction.
- The football game is in progress.
- They are in a meeting.
I'm less sure about something more abstract, though.
- Jerry is in the middle of a difficult time in his life. (This one is tricky because notice to 'in's.)
- Please wait. I'm in the middle of dealing with something.
Luckily, the last two can be expressed in a simpler way that avoids using 'in' or 'in the middle of', but I think the sentences would be less expressive.
Any ideas? Agree? Disagree?
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changye
Hi xiaophil
Honestly, the more I think about this issue, the more confused I become.
I guess that we should consider "a noun + 中(里)" and "a verb + 中" separately, although in fact the line between a noun and a verb is often not so clear in Chinese. Unlike 中,"里" can't be placed after a verb.
As xiaphil says, "中" connotes/emphasizes "process", and I think it's more true mainly when 中 is placed after a verb, just like “交谈(verb..?)中,我们发现了一个问题” and “会议正在进行(verb)中”.
As for "a noun + 中(里)", I don't see much difference between, for example, 比赛中 and 比赛里. If anything, it's a matter of formality. 里 is more colloquial than 中. For the record, you can say both 过程(process)中 and 过程里.
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xiaophil
As confusing as it is, I'm starting to get a picture in my head that is more put together than blank.
MINOR NOTE
I meant to say this above:
Jerry is in the middle of a difficult time in his life. (This one is tricky because notice TWO 'in's.)
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changye
January 22, 2010, 05:32 AMHi xiaophil
Honestly, the more I think about this issue, the more confused I become.
I guess that we should consider "a noun + 中(里)" and "a verb + 中" separately, although in fact the line between a noun and a verb is often not so clear in Chinese. Unlike 中,"里" can't be placed after a verb.
As xiaphil says, "中" connotes/emphasizes "process", and I think it's more true mainly when 中 is placed after a verb, just like “交谈(verb..?)中,我们发现了一个问题” and “会议正在进行(verb)中”.
As for "a noun + 中(里)", I don't see much difference between, for example, 比赛中 and 比赛里. If anything, it's a matter of formality. 里 is more colloquial than 中. For the record, you can say both 过程(process)中 and 过程里.
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dunderklumpen
January 21, 2010, 12:49 PMXiaophil, if you go with this phrase "在人类的历史_", 中 seems to be the right word to end it with. I got 100000+ hits on google for "在人类的历史中",
6000+ hits for 里 and no hits for 内.
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zhenlijiang
Dunderklumpen I'm getting slightly different numbers from yours so maybe I'm doing it a bit differently (a different google? I don't know).
I just wanted to ask, if you have the time could I bug you to also run the same search for
"在人类的历史上"?
I think that will also get a lot of hits.
Also "在人类历史上".
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dunderklumpen
在人类的历史中 113,000
在人类的历史里 6,040
在人类的历史内 0
在人类的历史上 280,000
在人类历史上 1,770,000
在人类历史中 482,000
MDBG only recognizes "历史上" as "historical, in history". Not 历史里, 历史内 and so on.
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dunderklumpen
I did the searching with www.google.se.
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zhenlijiang
Thanks very much for that Dunderklumpen! 给你添麻烦了!
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dunderklumpen
不用客气。
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xiaophil
Hey thanks, dunderklumpen! Using Google is a handy little way to figure out specific problems.
zodboyer
January 21, 2010, 09:20 AMYou see,the film is in a screen,you can use 里,means "in"
and the game is playing,you can use 中,means "during"
个人见解~