Culture shock
bababardwan
February 26, 2010, 11:14 PM posted in General DiscussionWe all know about the phenomenon known as culture shock which can be suffered to various degrees particularly by those moving to live in a starkly different culture.I'd be really interested to hear from those westerners who have moved to China what they found hardest to deal with when they moved there.The more specific the better.This is of course not in any way meant to be fishing for any criticism of China culture or it's people..it is just a natural result of coming from a different culture.What I'm particularly interested in is not only what those difficulties were but how they were overcome [or at least abated].Of course learning the language and about the culture beforehand as much as possible is certainly a big step in the right direction,but what else once one is there?
bababardwan
Thanks pretzell.Great list mate.I love specifics.Any trouble getting pretzells there btw?[ok,sorry,that's getting tired].Yeah,I've noticed the raw meat in open markets.I realise how lucky we all are if we have food on our plates,but that wouldn't be my first picking if I could help it.So you can't get Western style cereal at all hey?
suxiaoya
Pretzellogic -
I hear you on no.4! I've just signed up for an 8km race in Shanghai, which is next month. Should be fun, but it's the city's only race of that sort of distance - and it's held only once a YEAR!!!
P.S. Bababardwan - thank you for starting yet another fabulous discussion thread :-D
pretzellogic
suxiaoya, consider yourself lucky!! I wish that were around in Beijing. PS, I haven't done the Hash House Harriers yet.
Baba: thankfully, Beijing has no pretzels! :) No cereal in Lanzhou. Beijing is far more expat friendly. No waffles though, or none at Lotte Mart.
suxiaoya
pretzellogic - ah, you should give it a try, at least once!
I use hashing more as a way to meet new people, rather than for the running part (as you'll know, it's often secondary to the beer-drinking part). I've just come to accept that we race-starved beggars cannot be choosers ;-)
jiazhougirl
February 28, 2010, 06:04 PMHmmm...funny. Yep, I agree generation/location/background probably make a big difference.
pretzellogic
February 27, 2010, 04:51 PMmagnus, good list also. I forgot about the friends. In a few years, maybe my Chinese will be good enough to forge friendships.
rods
February 27, 2010, 05:15 PMSo, do you guys hang out with other expats or ... ? Just curious.
pretzellogic
February 27, 2010, 05:40 PMIn Lanzhou, we tended not to hang out with other expats, because there were so few (I was told that there are about 150 recently), and the few that were there were spread out over the entire city of 2 million people. Local Chinese were pretty friendly. Beijing is a mix of expats and locals.
pretzellogic
February 27, 2010, 05:43 PMMaybe this post could have been renamed: Top 10 things you miss about your home country while in China.
rods
February 27, 2010, 07:54 PMThanks! That makes sense. You have so few expats among so many locals, and besides, nowadays you can easily communicate with friends and family back home.
rods
February 27, 2010, 08:24 PMActually, I'm interested in flipping Baba's chart around.
I live in a small university town in Atlantic Canada, which is home to a number of European and Asian (Chinese and Korean, as well as South Asian) students and immigrants. There is also a flight school catering to Chinese students.
I've observed that the Chinese students tend to stick together in small groups, conversing in Chinese. (Many, in fact, speak very poor English--Also, there have been rare, isolated incidents of racially motivated assaults on Chinese students in a nearby city.)
Obviously, this makes it difficult to engage any one of them in conversation. Single students are approachable. This pattern seems to extend to other groups of Asians around the community, but those could be family groups. In any case, they tend to converse in their mother tongues.
This doesn't seem to be as much the case with other immigrant groups, Europeans, Middle Easterners etc. On the other hand, most in the local German community, for example, have been here for decades, and there is obviously less of a cultural gap for new immigrants. The Germans do seem maintain a loosely knit community, as do many other groups.
It's becoming easier to buy imported foods. When I was a kid, my family would have to stock up on Indian curry whenever we were in Montreal. There are German bakers, butchers, Lebanese and various Asian grocers. It would be impossible to eat the exact diet one would have eaten in one's homeland.
It appears, that language is the main "cultural" stumbling block here. English speaking students and immigrants seem to be less isolated. Of the Chinese students I've met, those with the best English were the most outgoing. (A Singapore Chinese, whose mother tongue is English, would seem to have much less problem fitting in.)
(Sorry if I've hijacked your thread Bababardwan, it's something I've been thinking about for a while.)
pretzellogic
well, to your point, I have less Chinese friends in China because my Chinese is so poor. The few locals that have poor English that are willing to put up with my halting Chinese are the ones in my building.
rods
Honestly, I don't know how some of the students I mentioned even function in an English university. There is writing assistance offered to them, but I'd hate to be in their shoes.
Someday, maybe I'll be able to ask them about all this in Mandarin.
bababardwan
not at all mate..very pertinent,and thankyou for all your input here.We have a lot to learn from how foreigners cope when they come to our society,so I'm very happy if the convo goes that way as well.I always think the more comments the better anyhow,and just because I started a thread I think Poddies can do what they want with it.Nothin worse than a dead thread,hehe. Jiayou pengyou :)
rods
Whew, that's a relief. My tangential musing isn't always so well received. Not that it's ever stopped me. I hope this thread keeps going, though. I'm really interested in hearing what the others have to say.
But, to borrow hellotherebrick's expression from that other thread, "off fer a lig i'bed."
pretzellogic
February 27, 2010, 08:41 PMwell, to your point, I have less Chinese friends in China because my Chinese is so poor. The few locals that have poor English that are willing to put up with my halting Chinese are the ones in my building.
magnus1977
February 27, 2010, 04:15 PMpretzel logic.
Great list. Love them. I felt the same way for most of them... especially the cereal and cookies.
To answer BarBarbardwan's questions: I would have to say that good friends were an issue. I would make many friends but most couldn't really understand what I talked to them about.
Also, sitting in a restaurant and realizing that we can't read the menu, the waitress can't speak english and the pictures don't look like anything we recognize.
Another is the amount of people who I couldn't really trust. Vendors, guys on the street... etc. I had to always be on my guard and watching myself. Obviously there are people like this everywhere... but it just seemed moreso in China. My wallet was always in my front pocket since I couldn't trust it in my back pocket...
Bargaining was an issue too. Everything EVERYTHING can be bargained for. You want to just buy a cucumber... you still have to be careful cause they might rip you off. I just want to buy a freaking cucumber... and I have to be on my guard and make sure I know the market value of a freaking cucumber... ANNOYING!
So many...these are just a few.
pretzellogic
magnus, good list also. I forgot about the friends. In a few years, maybe my Chinese will be good enough to forge friendships.
rods
So, do you guys hang out with other expats or ... ? Just curious.
pretzellogic
In Lanzhou, we tended not to hang out with other expats, because there were so few (I was told that there are about 150 recently), and the few that were there were spread out over the entire city of 2 million people. Local Chinese were pretty friendly. Beijing is a mix of expats and locals.
rods
Thanks! That makes sense. You have so few expats among so many locals, and besides, nowadays you can easily communicate with friends and family back home.
bababardwan
yes,I think a lack of friends and feeling alienated and isolated would be the hardest thing if that's how things ended up.Jiayou mate.:)
bababardwan
February 28, 2010, 02:54 AMThanks pretzell.Great list mate.I love specifics.Any trouble getting pretzells there btw?[ok,sorry,that's getting tired].Yeah,I've noticed the raw meat in open markets.I realise how lucky we all are if we have food on our plates,but that wouldn't be my first picking if I could help it.So you can't get Western style cereal at all hey?
bababardwan
February 28, 2010, 02:56 AMyes,I think a lack of friends and feeling alienated and isolated would be the hardest thing if that's how things ended up.Jiayou mate.:)
rods
February 28, 2010, 03:38 AMWhew, that's a relief. My tangential musing isn't always so well received. Not that it's ever stopped me. I hope this thread keeps going, though. I'm really interested in hearing what the others have to say.
But, to borrow hellotherebrick's expression from that other thread, "off fer a lig i'bed."
jiazhougirl
February 28, 2010, 05:36 AMI haven't been to China yet, but one thing I've needed to adjust to with my Chinese friends is not hugging or kissing hello and goodbye. I'm used to hugging my friends and it's just not comfortable for my Chinese friends. We've had funny conversations about how wierd it is for them, and it's been a definite adjustment for me.
suxiaoya
That's interesting - my experience is a bit different. In fact I'd say a good number of my Chinese friends in Shanghai are totally at ease with kiss-on-the-cheek greetings (to be fair, many of them have travelled abroad, so maybe that affects things?).
I've also noticed that young local Chinese, both male and female, are pretty tactile with their friends. I've often seen guys hugging each other, leaning on their friends' shoulders etc. Girls will very often join arms as they walk, too.
I suppose it could be a generational thing, plus I imagine location and background make a difference, too...
jiazhougirl
Hmmm...funny. Yep, I agree generation/location/background probably make a big difference.
suxiaoya
February 28, 2010, 11:00 AMThat's interesting - my experience is a bit different. In fact I'd say a good number of my Chinese friends in Shanghai are totally at ease with kiss-on-the-cheek greetings (to be fair, many of them have travelled abroad, so maybe that affects things?).
I've also noticed that young local Chinese, both male and female, are pretty tactile with their friends. I've often seen guys hugging each other, leaning on their friends' shoulders etc. Girls will very often join arms as they walk, too.
I suppose it could be a generational thing, plus I imagine location and background make a difference, too...
suxiaoya
February 28, 2010, 11:03 AMPretzellogic -
I hear you on no.4! I've just signed up for an 8km race in Shanghai, which is next month. Should be fun, but it's the city's only race of that sort of distance - and it's held only once a YEAR!!!
P.S. Bababardwan - thank you for starting yet another fabulous discussion thread :-D
pretzellogic
February 28, 2010, 12:47 PMsuxiaoya, consider yourself lucky!! I wish that were around in Beijing. PS, I haven't done the Hash House Harriers yet.
Baba: thankfully, Beijing has no pretzels! :) No cereal in Lanzhou. Beijing is far more expat friendly. No waffles though, or none at Lotte Mart.
suxiaoya
February 28, 2010, 02:23 PMpretzellogic - ah, you should give it a try, at least once!
I use hashing more as a way to meet new people, rather than for the running part (as you'll know, it's often secondary to the beer-drinking part). I've just come to accept that we race-starved beggars cannot be choosers ;-)
bababardwan
February 28, 2010, 02:49 AMnot at all mate..very pertinent,and thankyou for all your input here.We have a lot to learn from how foreigners cope when they come to our society,so I'm very happy if the convo goes that way as well.I always think the more comments the better anyhow,and just because I started a thread I think Poddies can do what they want with it.Nothin worse than a dead thread,hehe. Jiayou pengyou :)
pretzellogic
February 27, 2010, 03:25 PMFor me, culture shock is too strong a phrase. More like cultural adjustments. Depending on where I lived in China, here were some of the adjustments:
1. Squat toilets
2. No vanilla lattes, and no real ability to casually make my own coffee at home, with flavored cream
3. No breakfast cereal (Raisin Bran, Cap'n Crunch, Great Grains, etc), pancakes, waffles, syrup.
4. no culture of running, so no ability to sign up for the Santa Fund 5K one weekend, and then the Milford High School 5K/10K the next, and then the BAA Half-marathon, then the Tewskbury Run-your-Turkey-Off 15K, and so on.
5. the occasional McDonalds/Wendy's
6. Not being able to control the heat in my apartment.
7. Making anything with cheese at home.
8. 50mb/s internet speeds
9. no culture of baking, so no ability to bake cookies at home.
10. seeing ground beef and cuts of meat unwrapped, exposed to air, dirt, germs in front of me.