Cursive Handwriting?

There was a discussion on this topic when the Skritter function was added to this site. I was urging the guys to consider how Scritter might provide a systematic learning tool for writing cursive.

I collect samples of writing (with my trusty little digital camera) and try to learn some common cursive conventions.  Just to be able to read them would be satisfying.    

Bodawei, you should post them here! You could have a little group of cursive handwriting samples and we could try to decipher them.

I can't see Skritter being the right tool to learn cursive handwriting. Anyway, isn't it just getting the stroke orders correct and being lazy between pen strokes? Or is that too simple?

As if it werent hard enough. Soon you find that even the characters you do know are likely to sneak by you in disguise.  I realize there are one billion answers to every question in China, but I have asked and been told, that cursive is not taught in school (unlike the west). Each person develops their own techniques evidently, but Im sure there is a lot of copying and transfer of technique going on.

bodawei - by all means, post some pictures. Im sure there are a small number of common short-cuts used that once recognized would make it much easier to read cursive in the future. Sebire is exactly right that it is about being lazy with pen strokes and Im sure there are common denominators in this approach that can be learned. Of course it wont help you if you dont know the character in the first place. :-(

Goulniky (sadly not very active here anymore) has posted a 150 year old? dictionary of Chinese cursive at http://goulnik.com/cursives/. Also, several years ago, Richard Sears began posting cursive forms in his etymological dictionary at http://www.chineseetymology.org/. Both are invaluable cursive resources. Also, Fred Wang, I believe, wrote a Yale publications book ion Chinese Cursive. If it's out of print, try to find a used copy. It, too, is fab. If you Google chinese cursive or xingshu or chinese handwriting or...you've find a few other sites invetigating Chinese cursive. Oh, also try the Chineseforum's site.

As you might be able to tell :), I've spent some time trying to learn cursive and it's difficult. There are indeed standard transformations and you just gotta learn them, the same way you do in Roman languages cursive. Long ago, I asked my Chinese teacher to teach me cursive, and she refused, saying I already had enough to learn (and that my standard handwriting was so bad, I should fix that first.) But the result is that she has to print all of her postcards to me.

I've now tried twice to edit my previous post and it's not taking, so here we go with a fresh comment.

Oh, and...Jan (Johann?) Bjorkstein (Bjorksten?) wrote a lovely book in the Sixties or Seventies about writing hanzi with an ordinary fountain pen. It's the best resource I've found for learning to write correct hanzi on your own--what stroke is thick, what is thin, what angle your curves should be, what the correct proportions of each element of a word is. I think it's still in print. This won't teach cursive, but it provides such a good groundning that it's easier to deduce characters written in cursive. As usual, context is probably your best guide.

sfrr

Thanks. Yes, its Johan Bjorksten and it is still available for $16.50 at Amazon.  I have always thought the old fountain pen would be great for Chinese characters. Just like using a very small brush. Unfortunately your teacher was right, we already have so much to learn.

Sebire - it looks great to me. Mine looks like I build the characters out of tiny bits of broken straw. But I type them really nice :-)

The trouble is: if you ask a Chinese friend to write down a word or phrase, often they will not know how to write it in kai shu (would we say block letters as we do in English?) That gives the student two choices: figure out the cursive or remain unenlightened.

BTW, Bjorksten recommends using the kind of pen that resembles the old Fifties' Parkers: the nib looks like a little needle sticking out the bottom of the pen. (For example, see His Nibs http://www.hisnibs.com/%27329%27_series.htm#Jet%20Black%20%27329%27 for a photo of Shanghai's Hero Pen Company's hooded nib fountain pen ($15). I love mine.) I don't know the His Nibs people, but I do enjoy their fast and careful service. And their mouthwatering range of pens.

千万别喝墨水

www.bijifenxi.com has lots of examples of handwriting. Have no idea what the site is about, but interesting to see how it's done.