question about 出去
Purrfecdizzo
April 29, 2010, 10:21 AM posted in General DiscussionPlease read my question found here; I don't think it will show up for most people because of the new grouping system.
http://chinesepod.com/tools/glossary/entry/出去
thanks
suansuanru
April 29, 2010, 03:12 PMi think the most difficult part is to tell ǖ and ū.
One of my friends also felt hard to distinguish them,and his mother tougn is Arabic,he told me they dont have a ǖ in Arabic.
go_manly
Even though the u-umlaut is difficult for English speakers, I don't think we find that as difficult as distinguishing between ch and q - some can't hear a difference.
orangina
I think the difference between ch and q is the u-umlaut... Yes, your tongue is in a different position for the different consonants, but I feel this is to prepare your mouth for the vowel sound to follow.
jen_not_jenny
I have to agree with orangina on this one...even if there is a slight difference in the consonant sounds, getting the vowel sound is infinitely more important if you want your listener to understand you.
This is true of a bunch of sound combo pairs...ju and zhu, xu an shu, zhou and jiu, zhang and jiang, xue and shui, etc.
go_manly
I agree that the ability to differentiate between u and u-umlaut is somewhat more important. But you have missed the point of my statement. I was saying that people have more difficulty distinguishing between ch and q, regardless of importance. And I don't agree the difference is small - They are made with entirely different parts of the tongue, and have clearly distinguishable sounds.
Regarding another of your pairs - zhang and jiang. In fast speech, the 'i' in jiang is almost imperceptible. The difference between zh and j is then the most important way to tell these words apart, if not the only way.
changye
In fact, the sound of vowel, for example, in "qu" (去) is different form that of "ǖ" (u-umlaut). The former one is something like "ǖ + i", in other words, you need to slightly ease tension of lips immediately after you've pronounced "ǖ".
suansuanru
just like sh and x i guess hehe
changye
Hi go_manly
> zhang and jiang. In fast speech, the 'i' in jiang is almost imperceptible. The difference between zh and j is then the most important way to tell these words apart, if not the only way.
Actually the head vowel "i" is very important in Chinese pronunciation system. In the case of "jiang", you can't pronounce the consonant "j" properly without clearly pronouncing the head vowel "i". In short, both "j" and "I" are equally important, no matter how fast you speak.
jiangcheng1985
jiangcheng's here.....................
go_manly
April 29, 2010, 09:37 PMEven though the u-umlaut is difficult for English speakers, I don't think we find that as difficult as distinguishing between ch and q - some can't hear a difference.
changye
April 30, 2010, 06:49 AMIn fact, the sound of vowel, for example, in "qu" (去) is different form that of "ǖ" (u-umlaut). The former one is something like "ǖ + i", in other words, you need to slightly ease tension of lips immediately after you've pronounced "ǖ".
Purrfecdizzo
April 30, 2010, 11:44 AMDo you know of a place where these sounds are said slowly so I can match my efforts with the correct pronunciation?
dunderklumpen
Did you try the pinyin chart? If not, scroll down to the bottom of the page and click pronounciation. Then click one of
•Download Pinyin Chart (Win)
•Download Pinyin Chart (Mac)
You can listen to 出去 in the newbie lesson "how's the weather?" too. http://chinesepod.com/lessons/hows-the-weather/vocabulary
dunderklumpen
These lessons have chuqu in the vocab too. The idea is, you can listen to different people pronounce the same word :-)
http://chinesepod.com/lessons/weekend-warriors/vocabulary
http://chinesepod.com/lessons/hows-the-weather/vocabulary
http://chinesepod.com/lessons/a-ghost-outside/vocabulary
http://chinesepod.com/lessons/its-snowing/vocabulary
http://chinesepod.com/lessons/she-went-out/vocabulary
http://chinesepod.com/lessons/the-north-has-central-heating/vocabulary
Purrfecdizzo
oh, I like that idea.
dunderklumpen
April 30, 2010, 12:15 PMDid you try the pinyin chart? If not, scroll down to the bottom of the page and click pronounciation. Then click one of
•Download Pinyin Chart (Win)
•Download Pinyin Chart (Mac)
You can listen to 出去 in the newbie lesson "how's the weather?" too. http://chinesepod.com/lessons/hows-the-weather/vocabulary
dunderklumpen
April 30, 2010, 12:20 PMThese lessons have chuqu in the vocab too. The idea is, you can listen to different people pronounce the same word :-)
http://chinesepod.com/lessons/weekend-warriors/vocabulary
http://chinesepod.com/lessons/hows-the-weather/vocabulary
http://chinesepod.com/lessons/a-ghost-outside/vocabulary
http://chinesepod.com/lessons/its-snowing/vocabulary
http://chinesepod.com/lessons/she-went-out/vocabulary
http://chinesepod.com/lessons/the-north-has-central-heating/vocabulary
xiao_liang
April 29, 2010, 10:52 AMMy reply in that thread (the comments in the glossary are kind of divorced from this system now):
To me, it's a difference between the length of the sound, and also tongue position. 出 to my ear (and mouth) sounds like "choo" and is a longer sound, whereas 去 is more like "chuh" and is a shorter sound. Also the tongue is more pointed towards the roof of the mouth for 出 and slightly flatter in pronouncing 去.
You can hear this in the audio clips, but this is the simplest one: "出去啊?"