New Progress Tracking

Why would a squeaky wheel continue at it (don't know about non-stop; guess it feels like that on your side?) ... ? I don't think it imagines it can dictate your priorities by doing so. I think it just means the response for whatever reason, as Baba has said above, has been inadequate. Now that you've set up the Technical Problems on Site group (membership still under 20 though) it's better, we feel more assured that our feedback gets acknowledged.

Bodawei brought up the term "noisy minority". Seriously, I don't think we're "noisy" or "squeaky". It takes time and work to give feedback. And when you keep imposing this much beta material on users that affects usability, wouldn't you expect to keep hearing a lot from them?

I agree with Bodawei about your priority list and schedule. If nothing else, making this open would preempt a lot of further "demands" to be informed on status.

but non-stop squeaking by one or two people doesn't usually change the priorities

...I also certainly agree with this. I don't think it's surprising that this occurs though because often those comments that are repeated are for 3 potential reasons I can think of. Firstly the comment got buried and was never seen. Secondly it was seen but was ignored [but this is impossible to differentiate on our end if it fell under the 1st or 2nd cause].Thirdly it was seen and responded to but there seemed to be a misunderstanding. So the third reason is unavoidable and is just part of clarification dialogue. But I think the first 2 reasons are avoidable. Personally I would rather make a suggestion that was knocked on the head the first time with a reason as to why than be encouraged to make suggestions only to have them ignored repeatedly. I have no problem accepting whatever the final decisions are. I guess it just gets back to communication. I am happy to just go with whatever is dished up...the site still rocks anyway...but then you guys do encourage us on how to tweak it and on what could help the user experience.

'non-stop squeaking by one or two people doesn't usually change the priorities'

And nor it should - it can be very annoying. I hope that you were not referring to me by the way! I did squeak for quite a while about helping people locate useful Groups but I have moved on.. :)

Just a thought - if you do have a priority list and a schedule and so on, and I never doubted it, could you keep this permanently on-site somewhere as a ready reference for poddies? It would make us all feel more informed, and help the dialogue. I think that with this kind of thing transparency is a plus. (I am sure I have seen this kind of things on other sites, I am not claiming this as an original thought.)

bodawei,

There's a priority list for fixes, and we listen to everyone's problems, and then our tech team schedules them for fixing. A certain amount of squeaking is good to make sure a problem is known (and we do give feedback to new issues), but non-stop squeaking by one or two people doesn't usually change the priorities. (Keep in mind that we also offer support by email. Large quantities of emails about certain issues definitely affect priorities, but you don't see them on the site.)

Hi John - I'd like to know why the noisy minority is ignored on this site. ;-)

Several people have already mentioned this problem and their comments drop into the big void. I thought that it was the squeaky wheel that got the oil. I'm also pleased that it has come to your attention.

ma_tai,

It definitely sounds like there's something funny going on with your lesson counts. We'll look into it.

As for lessons to progress to the next level, it's difficult to set a general number for everyone, and ChinesePod certainly accommodates learners that progress at different paces. 80 for Elementary is the number our teacher services team has recommended, based on the accumulated experience of teaching a wide range of students.

Barbs

1. Thanks, that is odd, but you confirm what I thought. Just can't get to the blog at present.

2. AAh. I clearly don't 'manage' my lessons (as in mark 'studied' etc), I see now. :) I have of course been there before, but because I don't actively manage my lessons it is a kind of meaningless list, so I had forgotten about it.

bodawei,

1. I couldn't find it either except from following a link to the blog and then a link from the blog. It's supposedly meant to be on your dashboard just to the right of the lesson tab,but it's not there for me either. It does appear there though when you follow the link so that confirms I think that I'm looking in the right place.

2. Click on manage lessons and My archive is on the right hand side.

I also miss seeing the archive table on the homepage

I TOTALLY agree with you chanell77... i love the Archives table... and I dont really need the group one on a daily basis...

thanks bodawei, that is helpful. I need to be better about using specific things I learn in the wild.

At this point I don't think the progress tracker will be of much use, as I have been marking as studied those lessons I am done with for now, not that I feel I have sufficiently learned them.

I guess there are two different kinds of 'conversations' I have - spontaneous and more planned. (in the planned category) at present I see a friend a couple of times a week - if bilingual I just ask that they stay in Chinese even if I get lost. He/she keeps talking about it until I get it, or we just go onto something else. I jot down a few things that I want to talk about before hand and have at least a bit of vocabulary to kick it off - can be grammar points (eg. use of 着 zhe and zhao, something practical I want to do (eg currently go to the hot springs; talk about a TV program), and an ongoing study (Yunnan food). I usually have one ChinesePod dialogue on hand that I have already been through but have a few questions about. Even if those things have been covered in the lesson it can lead to learning something new. We might look at something like a local magazine (look for a 'lifestyle' magazine in your area) and never get to the CP dialogue, doesn't concern me. I write up the 'lesson' afterwards (everything I think I should learn and practice where possible) and keep on adding questions for later meetings. Spontaneous - when I meet someone I usually ask about their name, try to guess the characters etc,, and talk about food (my favoured topic because I know enough about it now to keep a conversation going.) So - my advice, find something and learn everything you can about it (not too obscure) so you can always have a conversation about something. If you know a lot about it that will also interest the person you are talking to. :)

bodawei, how do you prepare for your conversations? Can you give an example? I don't mean a transcript of your whole conversation, just how you got it started and how you reinforced the lesson. I have been trying to engage with native speakers beyond what is necessary to survive, but I am not skilled at small talk. Your method seems like it is effective at keeping the conversation going!

I am not so fussy about content - I am blessed with a brain that is so deficient that almost anything entertains me

...bodawei you always make me laugh but now I'm not sure what we should make of that because I can totally relate to what you're saying.

hehe,yeah,I love zhen's summary..blessed,armed and always learning. :)

Blessed, armed and always learning! 很羡慕你哦。Maybe I am too fussy. I could probably easily find a native speaker here to sit and have such discussions with me, if I paid them ...

Hi Zhenlijiang

The Dictation sections are also more tingli practice than tingli tests, useful as practice but they don't give an objective measure of listening ability. I am not disagreeing with you about the other things.

Thanks for elaborating your definition of 'studied' - I am not so thorough. If I revisit a lesson a few times I guess I would do all that. But my latest approach is to engage a native speaker on say four or five grammar points in a chosen lesson (I am not so fussy about content - I am blessed with a brain that is so deficient that almost anything entertains me). Armed with a pad and pencil I can turn a ChinesePod lesson into an hour long discussion - and at the end we are a long way from the original material but I am always learning.

Hi Bodawei

wonder if the Placement Test is 'easier' for those that have a higher reading ability?——很有可能的吧。Same thing with the Level Tests.

Both Tests have Dictation sections at the end, for all levels, but the questions all come from lesson material (Expansion sentences I guess). Often, if you have already been using CPod for some time, it's a matter of how well you've retained that lesson material. If you have retained and your memory is jogged maybe you don't really hear the audio well but you can recall the sentence and reproduce it correctly. But of course if you've retained, that's very good. Learners like me are still trying to build, and we need to be committing a lot of stuff to memory for our foundation at this stage.

Because I'm working alone--guess teachers of students on Guided or Executive say when it's OK to mark a lesson as Studied?--I decide when a lesson has been sufficiently studied for me to leave it behind (I plan to revisit later as a review, and make sure I'm actually retaining). For me this means being able to understand everything that's being said in the lesson, and being able to shadow pretty much verbatim the Dialogue and Expansion sentences (and now, all the Chinese Jenny speaks in the banter). I do the Exercises to cap off and help commit to memory (which is what they're designed for I think, as opposed to really testing you). Listening comprehension and speaking are my weaknesses. If my only criterion was being able to read and understand the material I would probably be working mostly in Upper Inter and maybe some Advanced by now. Forcing myself to stay with a "pretty easy" Intermediate lesson until I'm able to shadow the dialogue is actually quite painful and requires so much repetition, but it's just what I have to do. If I can't even shadow how will I ever speak?

I can see how Progress Tracking would be helpful for Newbie to Elementary students.

This reminds me of something I've really been wanting for some time. I'd like a set of markers to choose from so that I know how much of a lesson I've completed.There are heaps of lessons now that I've listened to but not studied.It would be great to have a marker to indicate that. Also I've decided that I would like to listen to old ellie lessons that were published before I joined CPod while I'm driving to work....I find these very easy to listen to and I don't want anything challenging while I'm concentrating on traffic but I still pick up points here and there and it's good revision,but not worth my time studying I don't think.So a marker that indicated you'd listened would be very handy.I'd like markers that allowed you to indicate when you had completed each of the tabs [vocab tab ..tick/; dialogue tab ...tick/;expansion tab...tick/,exercises tab...tick/ discussion tab....tick/] and then still keep the lesson studied marker. Preferably all these markers would be available on the lesson pages for ease of access so you don't have to then go elsewhere to hunt them in your archive.I realise you could create your own labels but it would be so much more convenient to have such markers to use if you wanted to. Also removing a lesson and then rebookmarking no longer works in getting a lesson at the top of your list on the home page. I'd also like a date record of when you first studied a lesson that stays there when you decide to have a second look. For example you may have studied a soccer lesson over a year ago and finished with it.It would be nice to leave that date stamp in place when you decide with the upcoming world cup it might be fun to revise the lesson.Currently if you decide to do this it removes it from your studied list.

"I need a marker that says 'Studied Once', Studied Twice', Studied Three Times' etc."

Exactly!

Hee hee, I'm challenged by all lessons Zhenlijiang. I was interested in your comment and wonder if the Placement Test is 'easier' for those that have a higher reading ability? Clearly it does not test 听力 or speaking ability. A real world (cf. cyberspace) test would normally test speaking, listening, reading and writing. Well that was my experience when I went to university classes, with the testing more thorough in China than in Australia. In Australia a guy gave me a text book, opened it randomly and asked me to read a passage. After a few minutes he asked me a couple of questions about the passage and then said 'what level do you want to study at?' I thought that was pretty funny. I said 'I need to study at X level if I am to get to China in a years time' and he said 'okay'.

But I have a question about progress tracking - what is 'Studied'. Without proper testing it is hard to say what your progress is really. I need a marker that says 'Studied Once', Studied Twice', Studied Three Times' etc. :) And then maybe a mark showing score achieved on the tests for that lesson. The global view provided by Progress Tracking is less useful for me.