User Comments - multi3434

Posted on: Plane Ticket Prices

I love you guys.

Posted on: Hospitality Series 2: China Union Pay

Jenny, is that sarcasm?

Posted on: Don't push me!

I'm sure you wouldn't be bothered if you were surrounded by 10000 others who would back you up in an instant. They don't care about pushing someone bigger. I'm 6'3'' and not skinny, but I was pushed a plenty in China. They don't even make eye contact, they just need to get somewhere. :)

I feel you, though.

Posted on: Ice Cream Run

Ok, moving on from ice cream.

What I was trying to get at is how I see no reason in slowing things down for the purposes of learning a language.

It's sort of like the "Baby Einstein" DVDs. They emphasize these weird videos of another baby holding a colored block, or something the creator considered to be creative, then they will play this dumbed-down version of a Mozart piece. Why dumb-down the Mozart piece? Is the baby going to "not understand" the original recording? If one's argument is that "listening to classical music will make a baby smarter" then at LEAST have the real music played, not a dumbed-down, electronic version.

Therefore, if one is trying to learn how to say "xie xie"...say it how you would hear it on the street. It's said quickly, very quickly, not slowly. If "xie xie" is in a lesson, there needs to be AT LEAST an explanation that when you use this in the real world, it ain't going to be slow. How can you watch out for it being said so quickly if that is never explained?

Posted on: Ice Cream Run

All I can say is... travel around China.

Posted on: Ice Cream Run

Nevermind, you're counting hits on google which, in my opinion, is irrelevant. I'm not mad or anything, but the reason you keep saying I'm unclear is because you have yet to travel there, or other countries, after comparing language learning tools with dialogue in that country and dozens of friends from each of those countries.

But you asked me if I think even the advanced lessons on here seem to slow. To be honest, not once have I ever heard any lesson's dialogue at a natural speed which would take place between two Chinese people, except for the media, etc. (I'm talking about the regular lessons here).

The least that could be done is...have the lesson at a slow speed, for obvious reasons, but then also in an actual real life speed. How can you practice your listening skills if the conversation in question isn't in the speed at which you will soon be hearing it?

Posted on: Ice Cream Run

"There was a time when your English was horrible (many many years ago) and you exposed yourself to real speed all the time, as cartoons speak at native speed"

Not many lessons are in real speed. This is what I'm talking about.

Posted on: Ice Cream Run

I have to ask my buddy what he called it. I'm sure where we were eating it was a local dialect, but they clearly told me I'm never going to use it. We talked about that stuff for hours and I had a list somewhere off words I thought would be used, (like gongongqiche for bus, when in fact that would be like using the word "autobus" in America) and I need to find it and put it on here.

Just..go to China. I can't explain that month long trip of listening with insane hunger for figuring out how badly I wasted my time studying. Everytime my friend would speak to someone, I'd ask her, "Why didn't you ask it like this?" Then I'd whip out my books..and they all just say, "it's never spoken like that...." It happened nonstop until I just said, "screw it."

Posted on: Ice Cream Run

I wish I were a better writer to explain this more clearly, but I work too much and haven't wound down enough to do so :P

BUT, I have two questions for you.

1) You have never been to China, correct? I feel once you go, you'll understand what I'm talking about a little better. But until you do, you're going to be confused.

2) How many Chinese friends have you had?

One thing you have to understand is..I didn't experience this just with Mandarin. I've lived with Chinese, Saudis, Koreans, Japanese, Thais, etc etc etc etc etc...5 years total. It's not like I tried studying out of a book for a week, couldn't do it, got frustrated and gave up. I've been tearing things apart to roots level and thinking about it analytically for quite a time now.

As far as your questions, I have been away from Chinese for a year and would need to either go back to China, or see my Chinese friends again to give you specific, clear examples of what has been pi***** me off the last few years.

I started listening and understanding Chinese in 2007 when I had a Chinese roommate. The tones, fast speaking and accents come natural to me. I know almost no characters because I do not put time into studying.

When I was IN China, I picked up local s*** and did what I needed to do, but when I got to Sichuan, Mandarin was completely and utterly useless in the outskirts of the city. They don't even use "ni hao" ...and "hai yao shenme" sounds like, "hey yo somo." That was, in fact, the only phrase I found in the 3 weeks I was there to be close to Mandarin. Nothing else even came close.

My speaking, currently, is back to nill because I don't practice, have no one to naturally practice with, and honestly, because I've lost faith in structured, out of real-life learning lessons, I find studying without being around tons of Chinese people, or being in China, to be a waste of time.

I will admit, when I was in China and said simple phrases, to taxi drivers or cahiers or whatever, they'd respond to me in local community dialects and often didn't realize I was even foreign (if a taxi driver wasn't looking at my, for example). I'd be with Shanghai peeps and they tell me I should be proud.

SO, I'm not exactly idiotic to SPEAKING it and picking it up. But no, I cannot write books of characters, nor can I, at this time, carry on a convo in Mandarin.

Posted on: Ice Cream Run

First of all, I am honored to receieve a reply from THE Jenny Zhu.

I also am in no way trying to badmouth CP. I love this place.

BUT, the reality is, most of the stuff in these lessons is not realistically useful once you're in China, from my experience.

Obviously, Jenny and the rest are in Shanghai, so it's not like they are in Kazakhstan pretending to know what goes on in China.

Here's how I can sum it up as easily as I can.

So, I'm in Shanghai. I need to go to the bank. Now, going to the bank in China isn't the same as the USA. Chinese tellers are focused, fast, awake, and want to get it done. Honestly, they do not care about me. That's cool. Therefore, I don't want to walk in there all white and ask to make a deposit in some formal way that makes me sound like I am out of a boring textbook. I want to be able to sound like I've lived there for years. A textbook is not going to show the language for this.

This was the problem in China. I had studied Chinese for quite a while, had a large vocab, but couldn't go to a restaurant and order in a "cool" manner.

There needs to be focused lessons on REAL situations; what you'd encounter on a typical day. The bank, restaurant, busses, etc etc. There are some, but it's not REAL. It's formal, and it is never said in real life. Like, "fuwuyuan" or whatever. I said that in Shanghai, Hangzhou, AND Chengdu and everyone laughed, because it's NEVER used. Same went for ice cream, and random things I'd point out and ask about.

I heard one of my friends yell out, "ni YAO me fan" and he was given more rice. You think you're going to learn that out of a textbook? That's the s*** I want to learn, but I can't search for it because I don't know where to look. I need a Chinese person to literally walk me around and teach me that, because it's just random situations. But again, that's the 100% applicable, useful language.

So I mean, there are these "Chinese in ten days" lessons that try to get you going on things you'll use once you get there...but it's just rush-created, pointless junk. I could get a lesson that teaches me how to go to a bank and open a new account, but if I played that alongside a convo that just took place between a local at the bank, and the Chinese teller, they will sound NOTHING alike.

This is starting to be a long post...but it's a pretty big issue with me because I've looked through at least 25+ Chinese textbooks/supplements/programs (including Rosetta stone) and the stuff just ain't useful. If there ARE parts that are useful, they're in a poor order. In my opinion, the most useful thing on this site is the Media channel, because that is balls to the wall Chinese. It's how two Chinese people would ACTUALLY talk.

The lessons however, are not. They are formal, and would not be spoken in real life. I love you CP, but the lessons are not useful/applicable enough in the real world. Not coming from America they're not.

Just like bababardwan said about "mamahuhu"...NO ONE IS GOING TO SAY THAT, yet for some reason, I'm taught that I will "impress" those around me if I were to say, "hai xing ma ma hu hu." Are you kidding me?

Some are going to say, "You can't just start teaching Chinese on a bank topic." But why not? Why do I need to know what to call an orange giraffe before being able to communicate smoothly with a cab driver?

I'm sorry, but I was president of the international club at my university and I've seen, for too many years, programs that are not applicable. I saw the exact same thing with the international students who would take ELI classes before they were allowed to take academic classes. Those English classes and courses were so completely and utterly useless, it was depressing watching those genius students sit through that before taking calc 5 at age 18.

It's just demotivating. Imagine learning something, going to a country and seeing for yourself that you are able to, word for word, in a way that makes you look like you live there, order a bowl of soup. It's positive reinforcement. These lessons cause negative reinforcement.

All learning has these obstacles, but it's because very few take the time to think logically outside of the box, and flip the box around. For example, I took this chemistry course once and everyone was struggling..nothing made sense. All I did was flip and reorganize the professor's words in a way that was more logical to a younger person, and they got it without even having to think. I just feel there is not enough effort put into LOGICAL and APPLICABLE orders of lessons on CP.

Also, when you are trying to actively learn something, you have to be mentally awake, and I'm not talking about coffee. This is the biggest problem with professors and their students falling asleep in class. They lag, they're slow, they're not excited. YOU HAVE TO MAKE PEOPLE EXCITED. If you've seen the "Calculus in 20 minutes" video on youtube, you'll know what I mean. If I turn on a CP lesson, I don't want it to be 2 minutes of Chinese and 14 minutes of English. I want it to be focused, no one yawning, no lag time. No jokes, no stories. Tell me how to order a cup of coffee, emphasize the accent, etc etc. Make it fast. Don't tell me to slowly say, "xiee xieeeee" when in real life it's ten times as fast.

I could go on and on because this frustration has been building up since I was in elementary school. In high school, for example, most of my time went to pondering why class lasted 50 minutes when only 5 minutes are used in active engagement. I just don't get it. Then people say things like, "I can't pay attention." Then everyone is tired, bored.

There just needs more active engagement in lessons.

On topics like this, it's impossible for me to be terse. I apologize :)