OK I'll go first.

Wow! Very nice!

Yeah I guess it's kind of ironic. I've always wanted to see what everybody's looks like, thought it would be fun to start what XiaoLiang did with his Picture Post.

Yeah, that's it. I remember reading in a textbook somewhere (not Chinese) that 'continuity: repetition achieves penetration'. I think this applies to studying Chinese as well, a bit like the age old 好好学习天天向上！

"even that is a skill in itself"

..definitely, and one I wish I had. Copying the dialogues sounds like a good idea. Reminds me of that saying about how you appreciate something more when you lose it. But I know what you mean mate, it's a long road hehe....so the peak of the mountain seems a long way off, but look behind you ...just look at your writing and you'll see you've left plenty of footprints.

@bababardwan - I'm not sure whether to laugh or cry ay my effort(s) given my general ability (probably Intermediate) and the amount of time I have spent 'studying'. Sometimes after I finish 'writing' a dialogue, I think to myself all I have done is 'copied' the dialogue, but I 'spose that is even that is a skill in itself.

@bodawei - this is my method, I suppose...I copy out the diagolue (usually while listening to the Podcast several times). As you noticed I put the pinyin in brackets alongside the characters I am not too familiar with. I also write out the Vocab list with characters, pinyin and English. My method is constantly 'evolving'. When I was an Elementary learner I used to write out the characters, pinyin and English, but found it too time consuming. Now that I am starting to take on more UI lessons, I am trying to 'wean' myself off pinyin.

@zhenlijiang - it seems ironic that we are using an Internet chat-forum to share samples of each others 'handwriting'! When I first started learning Chinese I never dreamed of learning all those squiggly lines they call characters. But having never really mastered the tones, it almost seems like the 'easier' option...

Hey I was just going to start a "class notes"/ Chinese study notebook thread. This is awesome waiguoren, thanks for sharing. I love looking at other people's notebooks. So much so that I worry it may be unhealthy.

It moves me, all handwriting especially something like this, the work that so evidently has gone into it.

I put the pinyin beneath too Bodawei, because most often I just haven't allowed for the space, to put it above.

Hey that's really good waiguoren - nice work. I'm interested in how people work out their own styles. I notice for words maybe you are not too familiar with you put the pinyin in brackets after the word, and it works fine. I raise this because we were taught to put the pinyin under each character, but I notice that Chinese people are taught to put it ABOVE the character (at least those people I have observed doing this.) And in kids books in China it is usually above the character.

Wow, that's awesome mate. I really wish I'd practiced this from the start now. That's something to be really proud of..must be so satisfying.

it's funny that you say that my given name isn't common, on my xiaonei my friend has the exact same given name, and plus I've met a few people with 豪 in their name, not so much 瑞 though

I think 瑞士的瑞 is a good descriptor... my Chinese name is 睿娜 and people tend to ask me 瑞士的瑞？To which I reply 睿智的睿, which doesn't help very often. (By the way, my friend's dad gave me the name. I figured it was a good idea to be named by someone's dad.)

'They're already casting leads..'

Are they now ? I wonder if there any for ageing foreigners ?? :)

Oh, that's ME I'm talking about by the way..

Or maybe they would like to peruse some of my stories for script ideas.

There are a few foreigners in the 90th film - I think that they are not dubbed, even the couple who speak Chinese. One sounds a bit dashan-ish.

There is a guy on CCTV News called 杨瑞 at least from memory I think that is the character (I refer to him as Uncle Ray because I heard him say 'One day my young nephew came to me and said .."Uncle Ray.. what do you think of the exchange rate issue in China?" or something totally unlikely like that.

Also I baidu'd 杨瑞 and it seems that there is an actor by that name who is more famous than Uncle Ray.

They're already casting the leads for the 100th anniversary extravaganza right?

How about 豪华? I remember the word from the Mumbai lesson.

For 瑞, a character I like (it does get used in Japanese names), if I were in Shanghai I might go around telling people "瑞金二路的瑞".　祥瑞 is the only word my dictionary seems to offer for this character.

'跟雷锋一样的行为' :)

That might work for the next week or two, hey? Just been down for a coffee where the conversation was the 90th 周年 - I found someone else who has watched the celebratory film I posted about recently (they are thin on the ground.) The use of famous actors like your 刘德华 has been a big hit at least.

Actually, the use of description of how to write characters is reasonably common - so I'm bringing it back a bit from the usual approach to spelling - probably because of the number of homonyms even when putting two characters together. My tutor does it more often than giving me an example word, maybe because I have asked him to. But in the 90th 周年 film there is a scene where Mao is talking to would be supporters and someone says something like 'but we are uneducated' and Mao I think asks his name (someone might correct me) and asks him to spell it and the guy says '横，横。。' and Mao say something like 'see, you're okay'. Oh, maybe he asked him to spell 共产党。。 :)

"And you may need to clarify that you are talking about a country in Europe"

yeah, I was thinking that. But it'd be pretty simple to just then say 欧洲的瑞士， 或者瑞士在欧洲，或者德国和法国的邻国

"自豪 - that may work"

if they didn't recognise it, I'd be inclined to add a simple example sentence and say something like:

"比如说：“我对女儿很自豪”。。明白了？。。这个豪“

if they still didn't understand you could construct a longer example explaining why you were proud. You know "跟雷锋一样的行为“

'刘德华的刘'

Ha ha - very good one mate! Yes of course if there is a simple way of spelling your name you use it - I just did the 刘 to demonstrate the kind of writing guide you get in those writing books I've been talking about. The other characters are a bit unusual - I didn't know this name was pretty common - Oh, I just realised that darkstar94 may be referring to the 刘. Yes I'm pretty sure that is what he means, it is of course quite common.

Your 瑞士的瑞 is very clever - it has practically no other use I would think - transliterating Switzerland and Sweden!! And you may need to clarify that you are talking about a country in Europe; I am not sure how many homonyms there are. Actually there are other uses - but this is one that I think you would have to spell out.

自豪 - that may work, again it is a very uncommon hao, and there are many hao that people would think of before this one.

The thing is that I believe that this is a fairly uncommon given name - I am a name watcher and none of my students have had either character from memory, and I think I would remember those characters.

The only real answer to your question is to try it out - I'm just saying that I'm glad my name is 大伟 !! :)

Hey, I'm very impressed with your ability to describe the characters in Chinese. But as impressed as I am, in ordinary conversation for the sake of expediency wouldn't you be more inclined to stick to the old “刘德华的刘，瑞士的瑞，自豪的豪”方法？

thank you!

haha well I've only had this name for a month or so, so I haven't had to describe it yet but I think that last name is pretty common, I don't think I could describe it in that much detail, I haven't learnt vocabulary to describe writing in that much detail

:) 谢谢 bababarwan

Hey darkstar 你写的字很好看! It doesn't look forced or unnatural to me; such nice clear chars, looks very open and friendly. And honest.　

＼（＾ｏ＾）／～

For example, Liu 刘

是左右结构的，左边有文字旁，右边有立刀旁。立刀旁，先写短竖，顿笔后行笔向下，在适当处藏锋收笔，第二笔写竖钩，先写长竖，在适当处轻快钩出。钩不要太长，不要太细。This comes out of the writing book that I have been talking about - on each page it has a little discourse on each radical.

I don't think I would attempt the others... :)

da jia hao!

Wo de zhongwen mingzi shi Liu Ruihao.

Nice and clear - very auspicious name, scholarly (I imagine), and brave on the pronunciation front? I am always grateful I just have to say 大伟。 :)

Just as a matter of interest how do you describe your name (each character) to people who don't know which characters you mean?

大家好！

我的中文名字是

刘瑞豪

很清楚，很好朋友；加油！

Actually, that’s the feeling I get with a kitchen knife if I should try to use it with my left hand. It's one of the things I can only do with the right hand. The feeling I mean is a kind of crowding-in, 压力感 I guess.

“that coming-into-your-heart feeling”

你的意思是不是？：

你担心可能会把笔刺中自己在心脏

。。这个感觉？

Insightful--没有没有.

Yes I probably think about this a little too much but believe writing hanzi is definitely meant to be done with the right hand. It's that coming-into-your-heart feeling that I think makes those strokes too short.

"...but because as you say 愉快 is a 快-containing word that would fit there saying the same thing basically"

..wow, you read me like a book, but then again you're always insightful.

"乐"

I like the 2nd stroke,..oh and the third, and the first, oh and the last two. Yeah, a very satisfying character that's for sure.

"that last stroke is tricky for me you may have noticed already"

..no I didn't notice but now you point it out I guess it's not as big as it's preceding stroke and wondering if it's because you're 左撇子？

yeah, it wasn't exactly the same as the Cambridge thingy, but it was reminiscent I thought.

thanks for your nice words Zhen. Cheers.

Baba yeah I saw, and anticipated that you would catch it yourself. I assumed it wasn‘t because of the legibility of my hand but because as you say 愉快 is a 快-containing word that would fit there saying the same thing basically. I tend to like to say 快乐, and in handwriting I like it even better (I enjoy writing the 乐 char even though that last stroke is tricky for me you may have noticed already--same issue with the 你). Hanzi/kanji are different I think from roman letters in the way they carry and convey information, but this Cambridge University research is interesting. From the little bit of training I have in subtitling I can understand that reading often is actually like being shown flashcards and taking in a lot of information in each split second.

I've been finding it very interesting to hear your responses in this group Baba. Like I wasn't thinking about the need for deciphering myself except with native speakers' writing such as the stuff Bodawei posts in signs and the samples Babyeggplant shared--I just blame the scribbler basically, for anything I find myself unable to read, hehe and fully expected to be able to read all "ours". But I realize anew how different this is from reading typed or printed text. Thanks for all your great feedback!

Haha--"embarrassed that I somehow know this"--thanks for the mini-article RJ, glad you butted in. Aww I'm disappointed to hear that Baba doesn't live in an imaginary city called Bikini Bottom. I recall Henning mention watching Sponge Bob in Chinese with his son. Knowing how quickly kids outgrow their fav cartoons he probably isn't any more these days.

I took a Look Inside that book on amazon--it looks really good.

Hmm sounds like you won't be sharing your writing with us here? Your story with the Seasons Greetings cards reminds me how different it is, even though the process should be just the same, for adults to learn how to read/write (speak of course) VS for kids. Do you just not do anymore at all?

I know you don't need to be convinced, but I love what Orangina said a couple of days ago about not just handwriting but with pen and paper (she could write a book) and want to share:

"I think one of the biggest benefits of learning to write on real paper is that you get a feel for the motion of the character. You learn the character in 3 dimensions: height, width and time. Then, when you see a native person's writing, it is a bit easier to read because the motion is familiar. You are adding muscle memory to your arsenal of learning tools. Now that's not to say I am great at reading native writers' handwriting... but I think it helps."

So persuasive, especially when you see hers.

http://chinesepod.com/community/conversations/post/11938

"One of Baba's fav's"

hehe, good one mate. Actually, while that show is or was here, it's not something I ever got into. That reminds me though. We're all interested in language here. Would anyone like to comment on teletubbies and their effect on children's language development [or lack thereof]?

Thanks for butting in. This is a much better explanation than I could have provided.

Hi Zhen, my apologies for butting in, and I'm even a little embarrassed that I somehow know this, but that is "Patrick" from the (not so good) cartoon "Sponge Bob Square Pants". One of Baba's fav's. He, (not Baba), lives in the imaginary underwater city of "Bikini Bottom" under a rock (his house) , and is most famous for his stellar IQ of 45 or so. (just a guess).

The handwriting idea is a good one. CHW is Different from typed characters in the same way English cursive is different from the alphabet. . No one style is taught (I dont think) so everybody kind of picks up their favorite habits from their friends (and enemies) as they grow. There is a great book I have titled "Learn to write Chinese Characters" by Johan Bjorksten. Worth every penny of the money I avoided paying for it, by putting it on my credit card. Hehe. (At least the world's books once again are in balance). Handwriting is important and something you need to be conscious of. One year, in a time and Galaxy far far away, I sent out Xmas cards (or maybe it was spring festival). Anyway, I addressed the materials myself. Not thinking about how it would look like the work of a 6 year old to them. Well, it did, and they derived endless amusement from this. So did their children 哈哈。Now I stick to the keyboard but I still need to be able to read Chinese Chicken Scratch, and some folks have developed styles and shortcuts that are quite eloquent. GD it, now if I could only train my fat fingers to fire in the proper order.

a, haha, yeah facing the opposite direction I guess? Now I'm going to have this image every time I try to sign my name!

Who is that?

hehe, I can see that

Yes signs was always fun. I've missed it.

Excellent ! Yes, let's revive the signs group. Glad to hear flickr is working also. That's the one I use.

Hi zhen

I finally worked out my problems posting photos and put up a couple of writing samples, and a few samples by Chinese friends (oh .. just remembered that one is a teacher, the one that recommends a restaurant, see the other thread), one by a near stranger I met but it is an example of beautiful cursive, and a couple of public handwriting signs.

now I have got Flickr going I might post some signs again - got a few beauties the other day by a real estate development company .. these combine real estate expressions, some 'modernised' characters, and even some crazy Chinglish..

Oh my this just-started-up group is so busy! I can barely write half the replies I want to.

Well yes I was going to say in babyeggplant’s thread--I would be very interested to hear what some of our teachers here would consider really nice natural writing. What if anything looks like ”natural“ writing to them--because that has come up already a couple of times as something to strive for. The teachers I mention have completely legible and perhaps schoolteacherly writing but beautifully formed characters. To us Japanese it's evident that they went under much more discipline than us as schoolchildren. Much much more.

Haha 谢谢 and it's OK I'm really not highly educated! But handwriting is alluring isn't it, everyone's. I am really loving this group and everybody‘s handwriting.

If you can see my photo then photobucket at least is working for you now isn't it. Really looking forward to finally seeing your writing Bodawei.

yeah, I can't wait for you to join mate. I don't think there are any useful tips up on this thread:

http://chinesepod.com/community/conversations/post/11933#comment-217174

yet but hopefully there will be some.

‘what nice natural writing looks like’

This is where I have lots to learn. A guy who gives me a lot of help with Chinese has what I'd describe as a weird aesthetic - when we were looking at the barely recognisable scrawl of a senior manager at my place of work he (my mate) thought it was the most wonderful writing .. 'you can tell he is highly educated' was what he said. But I could hardly recognise any characters at all.

So when I say that I love your writing zhenlijiang, I don't want that to come out wrong. :)

I gotta get my problems with posting photos on ChinesePod sorted - I would love to join in with some of my writing.

I'm kinda torn between writing them very quickly because that's what I do when writing English and I think that's the natural thing to do, and writing them slowly and deliberately because that's what I saw a couple of months ago at a Chinese festival...they were painting a few simple characters and you could get to join in. A real concentration on form. But it's so much nicer with a paintbrush for that and is pretty much a different ballgame I think. You also get to demonstrate the thick parts of the stroke and the trailing off bits, etc which this writing tablet can't show at all, and I think it's not as obvious with pens either, though you could to a small extent I expect.

Maybe someone who can be a model （老师们——？） will come up eventually and show us what nice natural writing looks like. Hoping so! Some of my Chinese teachers have had such beautiful writing.

haha nah I knew you were Japanese, I was gonna say you were cheating haha! I have a Japanese guy in my Chinese class, I'm jealous of his writing too

Ah in case you didn't know, I'm Japanese. I have what I think would generally be considered an 悪筆 akuhitsu, especially for a female person ... 汗

Don't be shy! We're all learners here.