Upper Intermediate - Focus and Specialisation - Poddies collaboration
chris
December 28, 2011 at 07:14 AM posted in Transcripts with Tal
chris
December 31, 2011 at 05:42 AM
14:30
Jenny: 啊，好，那么如果你有什么问题的话呢都尽管留言我们会经历来回答你的。好，那我们今天的课就到这儿那，啊，祝你学习最重要还需要开心
John: 嗯
Jenny: 要自己想说这个【过去】
John: Find your own 路
Jenny: 哈哈哈
Greg: Find your own 路
Jenny: 自己的路，自己走吧，让别人说去吧
John: 嗯
Jenny: 好，我们下次再见
John: 再见
Greg: 再见
15:02 ===END===
chris
December 31, 2011 at 05:32 AM
14:04
Jenny: 嗯
John: And also the Nanjing Johns Hopkins program in, in Nanjing, obviously
Jenny: 嗯，也是挺好的，但你刚才说有的时候你不用真的去上学去这样那个program也许你在中国找一份工作实在一个和很多中国同事在一起【优惠】是一个挺好的方法
John: 对啊，但是if all you can find is teaching English
Jenny: 嗯
John: Then it's going to be a lot harder to do it that way
14:30
chris
December 31, 2011 at 05:25 AM
13:38
John: Hmm, so I have a bunch of friends that have done some various programs. I personally think you can just find a job and just do what you want to do but some people, if they really want an academic program, um, in Shanghai I've heard things about the Donghua University program, good things
Jenny: 嗯
John: I've heard bad things about the Fudan University program in Shanghai
Jenny: 哦
John: But, um, in Beijing the IUP program at Tsinghua, it's in co-operation with Berkeley, um, they have a really good reputation
14:04
chris
December 31, 2011 at 05:19 AM
13:00
John: People speak 普通话 but, uh, you're not sacrificing too many of the amenities of a big city
Jenny: 嗯
John: Because they are huge cities actually!
Jenny: 是的，但是3rd, 4th tier cities请大家必要考虑，我也【tong lao guo】有朋友住在那样的城市可能有一些chinesepod user也住在那样比较小的城市但是真的生活【上】会一些不方便
John: That's true
Jenny: 嗯，好那就是这个是到中国的选择还有一些呢是也经常会有一些用户我们才想到中国来读一段时间的书对吧什么学校的这种program会比较好
13:38
chris
December 31, 2011 at 05:00 AM
12:34
Jenny: 那你可以和中国人喝酒啊，不行吗
John: 也可以，【li leng shang】可以. I just have seen a lot of people not succeed too well with that idea. So, I think that a lot of second tier cities are better choices
Jenny: 啊，对，因为很多二线城市very liveable对吧
John: Yeah, cities like Nanjing and Qingdao and Hangzhou
Jenny: 杭州，对
John: Yeah
Jenny: 大连
13:00
chris
December 31, 2011 at 04:44 AM
11:59
John: Well, because it's too easy to, like, fall into a circle of, uh, english-speaking friends
Jenny: 特别是上海
John: Yeah
Jenny: 你有没有发现在上海的这样的外国人比在北京多，我发现好多去北京的外国人比较hard-core chinese inclined
John: Yeah, and it's also a matter of willpower, I think
Jenny: 嗯
John: Like, you can make it in Shanghai, I just think it's, if you're a little bit weak, you know, you're a bit of a social butterfly, like to have a few drinks with friends and, you know, a few drinks can turn into many drinks and years of not learning Chinese...
12:34
chris
December 31, 2011 at 04:26 AM
11:33
John: Which ones?
Jenny: 那就是高中级的同学如果你们想要到中国来而且是一个比较怎么说medium-term commitment来工作或者学习的话，你应该到什么样的中国城市
John: 啊，对，这里我得说一下可能上海北京不一定是最好的选择
Jenny: 啊，你觉得这些好的就是你选城市不好吗
11:59
chris
December 31, 2011 at 04:16 AM
11:05
John: That's one angle
Jenny: 好可爱的一个angle
John: And I know quite a few people who are all in to, like, new social media
Jenny: 啊
John: Like Weibo and Boke and all these different, like, online sources of the newest social trends and...
Jenny: 大家可以从微博的笑话开始每天一个冷笑话，对吧
John: 嗯
Jenny: 啊，对不起我们，发现我们有两个很重要的东西刚刚忘了跟大家说了John
11:33
chris
December 31, 2011 at 04:07 AM
10:33
Jenny: ...因为非常不容易对吧
John: Yeah, and we'd especially like to hear about any, like, interesting angles that our listeners have taken in terms of specialisation
Jenny: 诶，对，你讲【X】这个interesting angle我曾经见我一个学生他是他是美国人但是他是美国的一个中医
John: Uh huh
Jenny: TCM的医生然后
Greg: Oh yeah
Jenny: 对，所以他说这，这就说为什么他会把中文学的很好因为在工作中他经常要，啊，中文的那个药的名字啊然后那个药方啊什么的
11:05
bababardwan
December 31, 2011 at 06:46 AM
噢，which is why I should really listen to these lessons first and look at the materials accompanying, hehe, rather than just jumping in.
chris
December 31, 2011 at 04:18 AM
Afraid I can't claim credit for that one mate, it was in this lesson's PDF!
bababardwan
December 31, 2011 at 04:15 AM
驻。。。哇, good pickup...didn't know that word but it certainly fits....I probably would have presumed it was 住
chris
December 31, 2011 at 03:57 AM
10:04
Greg: Ah, I mean I actually really do enjoy the translation thing so that could be a, a future, a thing that I do for a while in the future but ultimately I hope to maybe use it in graduate school and then in the government back in the States, maybe
Jenny: 啊
Greg: It's a tentative plan, but you know
Jenny: 也许你很会是美国驻中国的大使
John: President, Greg, President. Go all the way
Greg: Ah
Jenny: 好啊，那我想如果你在听着几节目的话呢你，你在这个水平首先要恭喜你。。。
10:33
chris
December 30, 2011 at 02:42 PM
09:30
John: 对
Jenny: 哇，吃力吗？
John: Ah, kind of boring actually
Jenny: 很无聊
Greg: Oh, man
John: Nah, it was ok, it was ok. It was, it was hardest the first semester and then it got a lot easier
Jenny: 嗯，其实真的不是每个人都要吧中文学的那么好，只有一小部分的人
John: But you've got to be interested in it
Greg: Right
Jenny: 对，对，对，没错，兴趣。好，Greg呢你现在是在用中文工作是在一个差不多中文的这个环境里面那以后你对自己有什么计划？
10:04
bababardwan
December 31, 2011 at 07:16 AM
Yeah, I wasn't sure about that either. It was just the closest I could come at it, and I wasn't sure about the grammar either but thought it is sometimes used in ways like that but I certainly wasn't entirely comfortable with it.
chris
December 31, 2011 at 06:22 AM
Could be, but is a 上 grammatically correct? Jenny is saying "So, you use Chinese in all of your lessons". Not sure that 上 fits. If anything, I'd expect a 里， as in "in your lessons".
bababardwan
December 31, 2011 at 12:24 AM
【xia ren】。。。not sure if it's just 上. I don't think there's a second syllable there. I think the "ren" you have is actually part of 然后, but maybe I'm missing something.
chris
December 30, 2011 at 02:34 PM
09:01
John: ...like for me, I started with the HSK because I thought that maybe I would, like, work on an advanced degree in China. So, after I got the score I needed on the HSK then I had basically all the grammar patterns I needed for, you know, intermediate and getting into upper intermediate. And then I decided to go to graduate school for applied linguistics here in Shanghai and that's when I had to, like, really knuckle-down and really study.
Jenny: 所以你上课都是用中文【xia ren】然后和中国的同学一起
09:30
bababardwan
December 31, 2011 at 07:13 AM
yeah, it's amazing how things can be clearer when you listen afresh.
chris
December 31, 2011 at 06:19 AM
Agree, it's definitely 要。Again, things always seem clearer upon the second listen!
bababardwan
December 31, 2011 at 12:16 AM
我【而把】...oh mate, I'm really curious on this one. I'm not sure either. I've definitely heard it before, and I feel I should know it. The 把 definitely makes sense. The er may be right also. Sorry I can't help. I hope someone will bail us out.
chris
December 30, 2011 at 02:29 PM
08:38
Jenny: 嗯，而且我也知道有一些学生他到了upper intermediate那John你觉得这个upper intermediate这种级别好像一般都是你有一个特别专注的目标一个目的然后才会决定我【而把】中文学得那么好，嗯
John: Yeah, I think it helps a lot otherwise you're just kind of doing this overall, like, very, very gradual improvement...
09:01
chris
December 30, 2011 at 02:23 PM
08:00
Jenny: 但是你觉得什么是比较好的方法【呢 - again I think this is a Shanghainese particle rather than Mandarin, it certainly sounds Shanghainese when Jenny says it, sounding like a "nay"】
John: I like, I like just talking to people,
Greg: 嗯
John: Like people that like to talk about language because, you know, in every language some people like to talk about their language and to reflect on their, their mother tongue
Jenny: 嗯
John: And so you find chinese friends that like to talk about this stuff
Jenny: 但有的时候他们说的都是错的，你知道吗
John: Alright, well, be selective in the people you ask
Greg: Yeah
John: Because you know I went to a graduate school for applied linguistics here in Shanghai and so I met one really good friend there who just loves to talk about all this stuff, so he is like my number one choice for this kind of question
08:38
bababardwan
December 30, 2011 at 11:07 PM
Jenny【5】: 对，我们『录』upper intermediate John经常【都会】说，为什么要说似乎，为什么不能说好像『然后』很多时候跟他说都可以因为牙！
chris
December 30, 2011 at 02:05 PM
07:30
Greg: 有啊
Jenny: 同义词，反义词，大辞典
John: 近义词
Jenny: 啊，近义词，近义词
John: 嗯
Jenny: 你觉得用这种好吗？如果你需要一个词但是有很多细微的subtle difference
John: Actually, I have a special method for that
Jenny: 啊，什么？
John: I record podcasts and I ask my co-host what the difference is between this word and other words
Jenny: 对，我们【X】upper intermediate John经常【I was expecting 这样 but I'm sure Jenny says something like "du le"】说，为什么要说似乎，为什么不能说好像【XX】很多时候跟他说都可以因为牙！
John: And that's when I go find Jiao Jie
Greg: Yes
08:00
chris
December 30, 2011 at 01:49 PM
06:58
Jenny: 比如那个似乎你。。。你也许就会说：最近好像怎么怎么样但是一个真的upper intermediate人他就会用似乎这样的词
John: Yeah
Jenny: 特别高级的词
John: This is the level where you have to either, like, totally soak in chinese all the time or get more systematically analytical, where you really take a look at these words like this, uh, this word how's it different from other words
Jenny: 嗯
John: And then use some resources to look them up and compare them and, and study on your own
Jenny: 中文有没有那种thesaurus
07:30
bababardwan
December 30, 2011 at 10:57 PM
Jenny【2】: 嗯，知道是像今天早上上班的路上我在听广播然后他们在说，什么，最近似乎很多人都买车后来我在想哇我没有没有教过似乎这个【词】还有到这个级别就会有很多明显obvious的词你都学过了
chris
December 30, 2011 at 01:43 PM
06:30
Jenny: 就是【说】你肚子里面这样"po po po po po"爆发出来
John: But it just takes a lot of exposure
Jenny: 嗯，知道是像今天早上上班的路上我在听广播然后他们在说，什么，最近似乎很多人都买车后来我在想哇我没有没有教过似乎这个似还有到这个级别就会有很多明显obvious的词你都学过了
John: Uh huh
06:58
chris
December 28, 2011 at 02:16 PM
06:02
John: It's always going to be, like, little by little
Greg: It's very hard to measure at this point, too
Jenny: 而且好像这个时候你的进步【他】就是突然就发生了自己还没有发现
John: Yeah, I found once I got to, uh, like the Upper Intermediate level I would like read these patterns and hear them, but I would never use them. And then they would just kind of sink in very slowly and then one day I would find myself using a pattern, just kind of on the spur of the moment.
Jenny: 嗯
John: And I actually used it right
06:30
chris
December 28, 2011 at 02:10 PM
05:30
John: Alright, let me give an example that our listeners might have noticed. When you record in English you used to say "now let's listen to the dialogue for three times".
Jenny: 嗯
John: So that "for" is incorrect. And I remember quite a few times I corrected you but it didn't stick. But now you just naturally say "now let's listen to the dialogue three times"!
Jenny: 怎么会！喔真的吗，我有这种进步也这种改变，自己都没有发现
John: Yeah, so alot of times the, once you get to this higher level the progress can never be huge again, right.
06:02
bababardwan
December 30, 2011 at 01:52 AM
Jenny【1】: ...他会说啊我感觉自己『都』『』。。。就是没有进步然后很难进步然后他说我也【我也】好像没有什么目标其实我想你可能【是/学】语言学到一个比较高的程度，常常会碰到这样的问题。【像】。。。
chris
December 28, 2011 at 02:01 PM
05:00
Jenny: ...他会说啊我感觉自己【都有】。。。就是没有进步然后很难进步然后他说我也【XX】好像没有什么目标其实我想你可能语言学到一个比较高的程度，常常会碰到这样的问题
John: Yeah, so goals are definitely really important
Jenny: 比如自己英文还行吧还OK然后我如果比较现在和两年以前我觉得我没有什么很大的进步啊
John: 你有啊
Jenny: 是吗？ 在哪里？
05:30
chris
December 28, 2011 at 01:52 PM
04:31
Greg: I mean absolutely and again this all goes back to just being in an environment where you're exposed to it all the time, I mean...
Jenny: Greg没有选择就是【XX】工作，【XX】他不，不阅读他拿不到工资
Greg: 没错，but yeah, before I came to Shanghai I definitely, like, made a commitment, um, that I was going to stay here for a few years and really find a job that was going to let me improve my chinese.
Jenny: 嗯
Greg: You know
Jenny: 好，那我也常常会听到有一些中文很好的朋友。。。
05:00
chris
December 28, 2011 at 01:43 PM
04:01
Jenny: ...但是你说那个说你是pretend，装的
Greg: I'm really...
Jenny: 中文 没有那么。。。
Greg: I give a really good first impression but after that it all goes downhill, as you know.
John: Greg knows how to interview well
Greg: Exactly
John: I can attest to the fact that he's, he's doing really well because when he first started I was helping him learn about, you know, the style of translation here at Chinesepod and, uh, he's got it now.
Greg: I appreciate that.
Jenny: 而且你说你特别是那个reading中文阅读的能力长了很多
04:31
chris
January 02, 2012 at 06:24 AM
Stumbled across this QW: Qing Wen - Various Speech Acts and 向 (xiang)
which includes a useful explanation of this 向。
chris
December 31, 2011 at 01:06 PM
Thanks Zhen. I should avoid using English grammar terminology...for the simple reason (and I feel embarrassed to say it) that despite being English, as soon as we get beyond "verb", "adjective", "noun", etc I start getting a bit lost with the terms! Happy New Year.
zhenlijiang
December 31, 2011 at 09:38 AM
Prepositions are hard for me too, and not just in Chinese. But 像 is just so all over the place, everywhere (in this podcast too). And I'm not really sure if it's a preposition.
OK have a Happy New Year everybody. Happy studying in 2012.
chris
December 31, 2011 at 07:26 AM
Thanks Zhen. I must admit that I do still often struggle with these prepositions. I guess 向 would be used more in the case of talking about direction.
zhenlijiang
December 31, 2011 at 07:20 AM
像Greg一样--literally "like Greg the same"--I would say is the default in this pattern. 跟X 一样 or 和 would also work. Not 向. As you say, that means "towards".
bababardwan
December 31, 2011 at 07:06 AM
oh, ok, I wasn't aware of that pattern. I must check out more of the old QW's. You don't happen to recall where you picked up on it do you? I'm just more familiar with the 像x一样
chris
December 31, 2011 at 06:07 AM
I gave the 像 vs 向 some thought. Isn't 向 another one of those prepositions like 对，给，etc. I thought Jenny was basically just saying "the same as Greg", literally "towards Greg the same"?
chris
December 28, 2011 at 01:36 PM
03:32
Jenny: 所以可能你到一个中国公司找工作
Greg: 嗯，没错
Jenny: 向Greg一样
Greg: Yeah. Actually, yeah, that would be my, my first suggestion is to get a job at Chinesepod and sit across from Jenny and speak chinese with her all day
Jenny: 【没有】，因为我前面问你就是你觉得你来Chinesepod工作以后中文有没有进步？
Greg: 啊，进步很多吧
Jenny: 因为你知道我当时面试你我感觉你中文已经很好了因为你要做一个翻译所以你中文必须要很好很好。。。
04:01
bababardwan
December 31, 2011 at 07:12 AM
oh yeah, I meant to type "Advanced". Yeah, I'm so chuffed you've given it a go. Thanks mate. :)
chris
December 31, 2011 at 07:08 AM
I think you're referring to the latest Advanced. Yeah, just had a listen and an attempt at a 30sec slot. Tough. Good to hear the completely natural unscripted speech though.
bababardwan
December 31, 2011 at 07:01 AM
"free-flow lessons the hosts sometimes talkover each other"
...yeah, definitely the most challenging bits to pick up on listening wise when people are talking over each other, but that's what it'll be like in real life, so good practice I guess. Yeah, I'm sure you picked up on it too, but if there are others out there and they're trying to catch everything it may help. The latest intermediate has 4 excited 女人 chatting and laughing, so I think there's going to be some overlap there that should be interesting to try and pick up on.
chris
December 31, 2011 at 06:04 AM
Agree with both mate. On the former, I'm not sure where that rogue 一个 came from - Jenny clearly doesn't say it!
On the latter, in these more free-flow lessons the hosts sometimes talkover each other. Apart from making the listening difficult, it's also difficult to deal with it in a transcript. I decided to ignore Jenny's 怎么办 here. But you're right, for sake of completeness it should be included.
chris
December 28, 2011 at 01:27 PM
03:01
Jenny: 嗯，在自己的国家你想【择】说就是【一个】有一些local college有一些大学他们会组织这种语言交换
John: hmm. I think for Intermediate maybe that can help get you there, but for Upper Intermediate you really have to have a lot of exposure. Greg, what do you think?
Greg: I, uh, I mean the occasional exposure like that in terms of language exchanges in the States is definitely not enough to really move past, you need to have a full-time, complete, uh, sort of chinese environment to immerse yourself in
03:32
bababardwan
December 30, 2011 at 01:25 AM
Jenny【1】: 那『啊』John你觉得一个人他如果住在外国有没有可能达到Upper Intermediate【的】级别
chris
December 28, 2011 at 01:18 PM
02:30
Jenny: 那John你觉得一个人他如果住在外国有没有可能达到Upper Intermediate级别
John: I think it's possible, but it's definitely not easy, like you could read enough and listen enough and, you know, study on your own to get to that level comprehension-wise, but in order to speak at this level you really have to practice a lot.
Jenny: 嗯
John: Uh, and I think it definitely helps to live in a chinese speaking region of the world or somehow just to get lots of exposure in your own country
03:01
chris
December 28, 2011 at 08:38 AM
02:01
Jenny: ...那你对是中国那方面比较感兴趣，你是想来中国工作或你已经在中国工作你想找中国女朋友你想【是自】做什么和中国有关的事情。Upper Intermediate你已经和中国结婚了
John: 嗯
Jenny: 我觉得你会有一个life time的这种affair
Greg: A life time affair
Jenny: 和中国有【一段】感情，一辈子【的】感情，对不对
John: 对啊，忠诚
Jenny: 要忠诚，要loyal
02:30
bababardwan
December 31, 2011 at 06:57 AM
could be, but for mine, if that were the case, I feel like it's missing something, like another 是 after it. Also the following 你在 makes me feel like she was also using the simple 在 before it. You know what though, 实在 does fit beautifully meaning wise and maybe the bit I "feel" is missing gets lost when switching between Chinese and English. I'll have another listen later.
chris
December 31, 2011 at 05:58 AM
Could potentially be 实在 ("in reality"), i.e. Jenny is saying "then at Intermediate, I think you are in reality 'dating around', just doing a lot of exploring".
bababardwan
December 30, 2011 at 01:11 AM
Jenny【4】: 嗯，然后Intermediate呢我觉得你『是』在dating around就是你在explore很多...
chris
December 28, 2011 at 08:02 AM
01:32
Jenny: 嗯
John: But for your specialised work you would probably still have to do it in english
Greg/Jenny: 嗯
John: Whereas at Upper Intermediate you're learning that specialised vocabulary to do your full job in chinese
Jenny: 对，所以到了这个级别其实很多人已经有一个自己的方向有一个比较专注specialised方向对不对
Greg: 嗯
John: Yeah, I think specialisation is really important at the Upper Intermediate level
Jenny: 嗯，然后Intermediate呢我觉得你在dating around就是你在explore很多...
02:01
chris
December 31, 2011 at 05:55 AM
I know what you mean. Jenny's basically making the point that foreigners are not satisfied with just speaking Chinese but always want their Chinese to have the "appearance"/"be similar to" that of a Chinese person's Chinese. I also can't quite work out which of the "xiang" is a "to want/想" xiang and which is an "appearance/similar to/像" xiang.
bababardwan
December 30, 2011 at 01:05 AM
Jenny: 对，所以这个时候我觉得你们要就不满足做一个外国人要想我想做一个中国人就是linguistically中国人
。。I'm undecided about those 想s....not sure if one of them should be a 像 or not.
chris
December 28, 2011 at 07:55 AM
01:05
John: ....Whereas when you get to Upper Intermediate, that type of stuff isn't too difficult anymore, but you start to realise that you don't talk like a chinese person still
Greg: Holding yourself to a higher standard
John: Right, exactly
Jenny: 对，所以这个时候我觉得你们要就不满足做一个外国人要想我想做一个中国人就是linguistically中国人
John: And like, at the Intermediate level like maybe you can do everyday communications with your, uh, co-workers in chinese
01:32
bababardwan
December 31, 2011 at 06:51 AM
I don't think it helped that Jenny said "level" ...ie in the singular form
chris
December 31, 2011 at 05:50 AM
Agree. Again (see my comment above), this is a classic example of not really thinking about what i'm typing. Apart from the fact that i clearly typed the wrong pinyin in the first place, had I bothered to do a translation I would immediately have identified that these were 些 and not 是
chris
December 28, 2011 at 07:51 AM
00:30
John: Yeah and what does it mean to be Upper Intermediate？
Jenny: John你给我们解释一下吧因为这是级别这是level都是你发明出来的
John: Well, you know, they're based on other levels that are out there
Jenny: 嗯
John: But, um, for Intermediate I think you've come to the level where you can, uh, express pretty much whatever you want to express in your daily life and, uh, you'll frequently come across words you don't know and you can learn them but, um, a lot of times a bit higher level discussion becomes difficult just because it's slightly more complex.....
01:05
bababardwan
December 31, 2011 at 06:49 AM
yeah, I agree that if you have the stamina, attempting a translation is worthwhile for exactly that reason. I did it once for a media lesson I tried to transcribe and for just that reason....I was getting the general gist but there were lots of parts where I knew I wasn't entirely clear what was being said. There's also the forest/trees thing as you're kinda alluding to.
chris
December 31, 2011 at 05:49 AM
Agree the 只。 Now that I'm separately working on a proper translation, it makes sense. I think it was waiguoren or pretz on the main thread that made a comment about the risks of the transcription process just becoming mechanical typing out of the characters, but still not really understanding everything of what was being said. I am now making an effort to both transcribe and translate each 30 sec segment. I may start also adding my attempt at the translations to each 30 sec segment, but this can come later.
bababardwan
December 30, 2011 at 12:54 AM
Jenny【3】: 啊，不是不是我们今天其实还是要说的，啊，【只】有一个特别的节目也是自己分享一些『窍门』一些tips怎么样做一个中文真的很好的Upper Intermediate learner对不对
chris
December 28, 2011 at 07:34 AM
00:00
John: This is an Upper Intermediate lesson on Chinesepod. I'm John.
Jenny: 大家好，我是Jenny
Greg: Hey everybody, I'm Greg
John: So, today is another special lesson
Jenny: 我们金三角golden triangle
John: Alright. That's not actually the topic though
Jenny: 啊，不是不是我们今天其实还是要说的，啊，是有一个特别的节目也是自己分享一些【chao me】一些tips怎么样做一个中文真的很好的Upper Intermediate learner对不对
00:30
chris
December 30, 2011 at 02:55 PM14:30-15:02