I have progressed!
simonpettersson
November 02, 2009, 08:34 AM posted in General DiscussionThis is a stupid post. But I'm posting it anyway, because I'm happy. I recently tried an Upper Intermediate lesson and found it at just the right level, as I've found the Intermediate lessons too easy lately. They usually have good specialized vocabulary, but there are always a number of general terms I already know. So I hesitantly tried a UI lesson, and it's great! Challenging but not incomprehensible.
A month ago there was no way I could get through a UI lesson. Now I can. I'm very, very happy. Here's to hoping I get to Advanced before I come to China in four months ...
Thank you, ChinesePod, for your awesome site which has enabled me to learn so quickly. I'm absolutely certain that no other program would have enabled me to progress this fast. I love you all, each and every one of you wonderful people who work so hard to give us learners such a great learning environment and high-quality lesson material.
Yeah, I'm being mushy, I know. But that's because I'm happy. I'd better stop now before I embarrass myself.
xiaophil
November 03, 2009, 07:06 AMGood work Simon. I made a similar 'mushy' post about a month back. The difference was, I had tons of opportunity to talk with Chinese people as I live in China. I really admire that you've gotton so far without actually being in an authentic environment or attending structured classes.
hamshank
November 02, 2009, 09:33 AMWow...well done! I think i will have to up my game...
Heres a question. At what point did you move from Newbie to elementary? How many words did you have memorised?
bababardwan
November 02, 2009, 09:45 AMWell done Simon.I'm even more impressed with learning French in just 6 months.By learnt I take it you mean you're now at a fluent level? 了不起！What were your methods/resources there? Did you ever use FrenchPod? How would you compare learning the two?
John
November 02, 2009, 09:51 AMWow, that is great to hear! Sounds like you've made really rapid progress. Have you had opportunities to practice speaking?
If you don't mind my asking, which UI lesson was it that revealed your breakthrough?
simonpettersson
November 02, 2009, 10:03 AMVallance said:
Heres a question. At what point did you move from Newbie to elementary? How many words did you have memorised?
Back then, I was just listening and not actively memorizing, so I really have no idea how many words that was. Probably took a long while, though. Can't remember. There was some Pimsleur, too, but that didn't work so well. But it probably helped a bit.
Bababardwan said:
I'm even more impressed with learning French in just 6 months.By learnt I take it you mean you're now at a fluent level? 了不起！What were your methods/resources there? Did you ever use FrenchPod? How would you compare learning the two?
Well, I had been taking French in school for many years, but that never really worked. I still couldn't say anything in anything but present tense. As for "fluent level", I haven't really had much opportunities for using it, but the few I have had have worked without problems. I can watch French movies without subtitles. Though now I'm worrying I'm not maintaining it enough, what with my focus on Mandarin and all.
Comparison-wise? French is a molehill, Chinese is a mountain. It's a world of difference. In French, just as any European language, there's a large "international vocabulary" stemming from Latin. No such thing in Chinese (in fact, loan words are even harder to remember than ordinary Chinese words).
However, I think I have a distinct advantage in knowing three languages already. I have little trouble memorizing new words, which I did have in French.
Methodology-wise, French was mastered through an unforgiving teacher and full-time studies at a local college, but mostly by watching tons and tons of French movies, starting with cartoons and moving through dubbed films to original French ones. I didn't have to worry much about reading, since French spelling is pretty consistent after you get used to it.
simonpettersson
November 02, 2009, 10:11 AMJohn said:
Wow, that is great to hear! Sounds like you've made really rapid progress. Have you had opportunities to practice speaking?
None whatsoever, except for a Singaporean masseuse a year ago on a switchover on my way to Australia. I might buy a Guided subscription for a month before I get to China, but in my experience, active skill will readily follow passive skill, especially since I'm memorizing vocab both ways (Chinese-English and English-Chinese).
If you don't mind my asking, which UI lesson was it that revealed your breakthrough?
Saved by the Gong: Tai Chi.
matt_c
November 02, 2009, 10:33 AM@simonpettersson Nice work mate. Roughly how many hours a day of exposure to the Chinese language have you given yourself during this more intense period of your study?
pretzellogic
November 02, 2009, 10:35 AMsimonpettersson, this is totally cool. 10-30 words/day too. Nice quantifiable metric. And it sounds like you were able to sustain that type of pace for about 5 months or so. Tribute to your dedication. Curious if your 10-30 words/day is over 5 days/week or 6 days/week?
10-30 words/day sounds like 1-3 intermediate lessons per day. Interesting.
Gives us all something to shoot for.
Curious if you'll be trying to study with the monks at the shaolin temple in Zhengzhou, or you will be going to the multitude of martial arts schools in Zhengzhou? I know there are plenty throughout China, but curious where you'll be studying.
changye
November 02, 2009, 11:24 AMHi simon
Gee, I just shouldn't have asked that question. You're really a fast learner, who seems to have a good listening comprehension ability.
simonpettersson
November 02, 2009, 09:10 AMThat's a very difficult question, Changye. I actually started listening to ChinesePod pretty much a few months after it had started. But back then, I only listened to some newbie lessons, didn't learn any characters and didn't memorize anything. Long periods of not doing any studies intermingled with periods of listening to CPod. I tried some other methods, but couldn't stick to them. They were too boring.
Then I learned French in six months intesive studying (after six years of shool learning which didn't give me much). No Chinese then.
Then some more CPod, until they changed it so that only paying customers could access the lessons other than the newbie ones. By then I was at an Elementary level, and didn't feel like paying, so I quit learning.
Then about six-seven months ago I decided to take it up again, and paid for a subscription. I started doing some flashcard stuff with my iPhone and listened to lessons. This is when I started actually learning characters. I was at Intermediate pretty quickly, but remained there. I had a lot of words that I knew but didn't know the characters for.
About a month ago I started my current intesive study schedule, since it became clear that I'll go to China to practice kung fu for a year starting March. Now I'm adding 10-30 words each day, learning a bunch of new characters and reviewing hundreds of words every day, through spaced repetition (which is the best thing ever).
So, uh, how long have I been studying Chinese? Depends on what you mean by "studying" and wether you count long stretches of time where I didn't do any of it.
sebire
November 02, 2009, 01:01 PMArgh, you've put me to shame. I need to buck up and start concentrating. How do you review the vocab Simon? Or is it the sheer amount of Chinese you hear that keeps it fresh in the mind?
bodawei
November 02, 2009, 01:16 PMSimon
You seem to have an unusual brain (that's a complement)! Maybe there is a 'cross over' with your martial arts - does the discipline learnt in martial arts carry over into language learning? I don't think I was ever able to learn more than half a dozen words a day even when learning intensively. I find it incredibly boring for a start. I could learn more (for dictation, tests, etc.), but would not remember how to write them just a week or two later. Then there was a period involving memorising whole passages! Also quickly forgotten, but I would pick up grammar patterns this way. Then this becomes boring too. Now I am incredibly unsystematic and enjoy the learning a lot. Incidentally I can't imagine how I would have proceeded without speaking practice (I love the sound of the language and even in Sydney I found opportunities to speak Chinese every day) - but then my brain obviously works differently to yours!!
simonpettersson
November 02, 2009, 02:28 PMOn review: Spaced Repetition Software. It's that good.
For those of you who don't know, SRS uses an algorithm to calculate when it's time for you to review. You test your knowledge, and if it's easy, it'll take longer until it's time to review again. If you do poorly, it'll make you review the word again soon. All the vocab I study is entered into my ChinesePod vocabulary tool, which is then synced with StudyArcade in my iPhone. SA uses SRS to decide which words I need to review each day.
To me, the advantage is not just the fact that it makes sure I never forget a word, but also that it tells me when I don't have to review anymore for the time being. This way, I can be sure I'm on top of things and thus add new vocabulary.
Also, I don't "waste" time (in quotes because my learning style is certainly not the same as yours, so it might not be a waste of time to you) trying to read through stuff that has characters or words that I don't know. I don't read comments written in Chinese on this site, because they're likely to contain such words. Or, actually, I start reading them, but stop when I encounter unknown words or characters. This is also why I don't use the Activity Stream. If there's a text I want to read, I add every single new word or character (except names, at this moment, but I'll have to start doing that, too) into my vocab list.
Also, please note that just before I get to China and especially when in China, my method is likely to change. For now, I want to learn lots of vocab. I gather that patterns and grammar will be quickly picked up when in China.
pretzellogic
November 02, 2009, 03:20 PMI forgot that you mentioned you were a southern styles practitioner. Have fun in Guandong province.
Regarding the patterns/grammar, that will be interesting to see how you pick that up, although i'm sure with 3 languages under your belt, you'll do better than me. What I noticed the few times I was in the region is that enough people were understanding mandarin so it wasn't an issue. But for me, they were speaking way too fast (in other words, normally).
bodawei
November 02, 2009, 03:32 PMSimon
Your approach to reading is certainly different as well - i am always reading stuff that contains characters I don't understand for sure. There is a lot of guess work in reading Chinese in my approach, helped by learning meanings normally associated with certain radicals, and context. If I think that my understanding of what I am reading is hampered by this approach I look some key characters up in a dictionary, and if that doesn't help I try and ask a native speaker. I find that I learn quite a lot about written Chinese this way.
BTW I have never used software that has a pop-up definition (except where it happens on ChinesePod.) I can see how it could help in certain situations - but of course it is not available for much reading material. But I also find it can be a bit of a distraction, something like text with pinyin under it distracts.
It occurs to me that I am not in as much of a hurry as you!
I do like the challenges you are throwing out - to received wisdom, poddies etc.
jckeith
November 02, 2009, 07:09 PMYour progress and dedication are very impressive. I feel both inspired and ashamed! I wholeheartedly agree with you about the SRS algorithm. I use Anki everyday to review vocabulary, and it is absolutely invaluable.
John
November 03, 2009, 06:39 AMWow, really valuable details. Thanks, Simon!
hkboy
November 03, 2009, 06:58 AMSimon,
Thanks for the details. How did you get started learning the characters?
simonpettersson
November 02, 2009, 11:30 AMMatt C: How many hours per day is yet another difficult question. I shadow dialogues for 30-40 minutes of walking a day. I listen to a lot of CPod at work, though lately I've been going through the Dear Amber episodes instead. I do revision at the bus and at home, sometimes with a notebook to write the characters on. All in all, maybe 2 hours on a slow day, 8 hours on an intensive weekend day, plus listening at work, 1-4 hours or so (though this isn't always very active). Add to that trying to think in Chinese.
Pretzellogic: Regarding 10-30 words a day, it's usually closer to 10 than 30. Average around 15, maybe. Yeah, it's been several Intermediate lessons a day lately. I haven't been doing this breakneck speed for five months, though. Just the last month. It demands a lot of revision, but it's doable.
The kung fu will be done in Foshan. I'll be training Wing Chun. From what I've been able to gather, "kung fu" in China usually means "modern wushu" (including what's left of the Shaolin temple), which is not what I'm interested in, but Wing Chun seems to be an exception, so that's what I'll be studying.
changye
November 02, 2009, 08:44 AMHi simon
How long have you been lerning Chinese? Please kindly don't say "half year"!