Should Qing Wen's sometimes be a bit harder?

I would go so far as to say I only rate them as useful or not. I don't really think too often they are interesting, but at the same time, I NEVER think they are boring, and I almost always find them fun. (I haven't lived in China long enough to think fun and interesting are the same, haha.) As I said, I still learn something new from all of them. But I find that as time goes on I learn less and less from them.

I think that there are still many possible episodes out there that could deal with nuances, special cases and technical nitty-gritty stuff that would make me pause and say, "Wow, I really learned a lot." When it comes to technical expertise, it is really hard to get sometimes. Chinese Mandarin teachers have trouble finding the English words to describe what they want to say, and when they try to use their own language, it often goes over my head. I would think that CPod is the perfect place to bridge this gap, and if they won't, who else can?

But I would like to say one more time. I am not upset. I'm still learning, thus I'm still happy.

Hi go_manly

Well said. I agree with you.

Less as you get older too.... sorry, can't remember how many times around now. Will definitely be losing track of things tonight !

hey,happy 21st mate [2nd time 'round ,no?]..have a good one and ganbei !!

ps I completely agree...it's the patterns and structures I want to learn more about too...also is the area for me that I need.

ps UI ...is generally English and Chinese but more Chinese than in Intermediate ...I think mostly Chinese now I come to think about it...funny I think one notices these things less rather than more after a while.I think I lose track of where I am sometimes,hehe.

Yeah, I agree that it's more than just about patterns/structures, Babar; but that's the area I find most difficult and would like to see 'gone into' more. I haven't dipped into the Upper Intermediate lessons yet - are grammatical points in those lessons covered in english or in chinese ?

Have to go now mate. I'm having a few days off work for my birthday - seem to have spent too much time here already. Off out to bask on the snow-covered lawn in a mo.

Seez yer.

"Simple vocabulary is best, because then one can concentrate exclusively on the patterns themselves."

..completely agree mate...that is ,where it is a grammar pattern that is being studied.Of course QW is all about questions poddies may have/areas they are having difficulty so it's a broader lesson channel than just grammar and sometimes it is about vocab...distinguishing between the different uses of similes for example and obviously in a case like that you may well expect it to be higher vocab at a higher level.

"QW is not a place to learn more high level vocab, it's a place to learn patterns, structures or grammar..."

That's exactly my feeling. But I wouldn't just like to see more patterns/structures covered, I'd like to see familiar patterns/structures covered in more depth, and more complex ones covered. Simple vocabulary is best, because then one can concentrate exclusively on the patterns themselves.

I'm by no means advocating stopping the production of QWs at a basic level. I don't want to see the system overhauled, but I would like to see QWs reflecting the different levels as presented by CPod. Although I'm only a few months out of Elementary, I have lots of questions which aren't answered in the depth I need by the current QWs, and I have to go to grammar books for that. Maybe someone will say 'Fine, then continue to refer to grammar books', but surely that negates the whole purpose of QW; unless, of course, it was only ever intended to cover the basics.

Definitions: We can take the content and scope of the levels as presented by CPod as our guide if you like. As for definitions of grammar and structure, use of a dictionary definition would facilitate communication.

First one should define: what do you mean by an Ele./Intermed./UI./Adv. QingWen? vocab? grammar? structures?

If in vocab - I would disagree to make QW "harder".

If in structures or grammar - yes I would like to see more stuff because not all topics have been covered until now.

But I think it's possible to use "easy vocab" (Ele/Intermed.).

QW is not a place to learn more high level vocab, it's a place to learn patterns, structures or grammar...

See, chunjie, you're not alone ( go_manly and changye, below). What do you think ? ..........

Chunjie, I agree with Brick. Please talk. Besides, in the end, we might not get our way anyway, haha.

Hi chunjie. We're not so much taking a vote as talking around a topic. Why do you think QWs should stay as they are ?

How do, thinkbuddy. A closer relationship between different parts of the CPod universe would really suit me. The easiest way might be to have pointers to lessons which include examples of patterns showcased in QW; then I wouldn't have to search around for examples in action ( which is time consuming for me, haha! )

You're absolutely right mate.I suppose it comes back to QW was originally meant to be driven by user questions. There were a few lessons at the very least where it seemed there mustn't have been any coming in and they seemed to be making up user request names as a bit of a joke.So it makes me wonder if the lower numbers of poddies at the higher levels were not bothering to send in QW question requests.Perhaps some of us should start doing that if we want to see some higher level QW's.That we may get the stuff we're specifically looking for. eg. how about you getting 得 vs 地 clarified?

I didn't see this post earlier, Babar. Interesting. Yeah, but when I said that CPod isn't a progressive course, I meant that it seems to have started with several different levels - we didn't get 300 Newbies, followed chronologically by a couple hundred Intermediates to be followed at some future time by the introduction of Advanced lessons. The more advanced level lessons were probably in progress almost at the inception of Cpod (but I don't know, I wasn't here then). If this is the case, then the Newbies and Elementary students have been well catered for in terms of QWs, but the people signing up for CPod who already are beyond the Elementary level, and have a good grasp of the grammar at Elementary, even Intermediate levels have not been so well served. I'm not saying that I understand everything to do with grammar at the Ele level, but I'd find it more fruitful dipping into more advanced grammar study, cos that seems to be where the answers to many of my questions lie.

I agreed with you about the quality of CPod. Leader in the field, entertaining and professional !

Have to go now, I'm late for a very important date with a beer or two, or three......or ........

brickie,

I really don't know at all of course and am just speculating,but as well as my thinking above the other reasons for feeling that it's heading that way is that in the standard lessons there were a lot more Newbie lessons at one stage then there were higher level lessons. Ok the current tally is Newbie 326,Ellie 293,Intermediate 252,UI 185,Advanced 195,Media 79 [shouldn't gomanly be doing this,hehe,..no wait on...this bits easy whereas he does the harder tallying ]...so you can see a continual tapering off from Newbie to Media which was probably more pronounced before they stopped Newbie lessons which brings me to my next point...John has expressed a recognition that now that they have so many newbie lessons it's hard to keep producing them and at the same time there is an need to expand out the higher levels.I think this trend can also be seen in QW where ,though not rated,most would agree [ at least I think] were probably newbie to ellie level, and then lately we've had a lot of intermediate levels.You talk of QW remaining at the lower level despite lots of higher level lessons,but don't forget to look at those numbers...there were 326 Newbie lessons before they decided that was enough of that level for the time being...we're only up to 138 in QW.I dunno mate,maybe it's a bit different with QW anyway and they needed to cover the basics a bit more before moving up as maybe folk in general find grammar related stuff a bit trickier to grasp particularly if CPod is being used as a sole resource without any other background in Chinese grammar.Thanks to you to mate .I think I expressed myself a bit ambiguously originally.I'm sure I could handle a higher level 2 because the teaching here is so good and made very clear,but as I said to xiaophil I still think there's no escaping the usefulness and importance of learning the basic stuff which I haven't gotten around to yet.Jiayou to you to mate :)

ps When John gets back it will be most interesting to hear what he has to say as speculating doesn't get one too far.

thanks mate but I both agree and disagree.On the one hand I know that I would certainly enjoy and get a lot out of any higher level QW's and would not be deterred by the level [which is I think where you're mainly coming from..thanks again for your encouragement]...so bring 'em on.On the other hand I know that I still have so much that I could get out of the archived QW's that I've never got around to looking at.I think there is no escaping that there is certain stuff you just have to learn to fill in gaps in your knowledge.Sure some of this stuff kinda comes either through osmosis or through picking up points in the usual lessons,but I do think QW is very useful as it focuses on this stuff more.

Babar: I hope your feeling is right, old pal. As I said, even those two QWs said to be Intermediate seem too elementary to me, and I would class my own ability as transitional between Elementary and Intermediate in terms of CPod's schema of levels. When I look at other grammar resources for Intermediate learners they are pitched at a significantly higher level than those two lessons, but the content is not out of reach for someone at my level.

In one sense it makes sense for CPod to introduce grammar in the QW series at the basic level and increase the difficulty, as you said. It also makes sense that CPod is probably catering to the majority of it's subscribers by not having pursued grammar in QW in greater depth; but the lessons themselves do not follow a progressive format -there are, and have been for a long time, a heck of a lot of Intermediate > Advanced lessons, not to mention Media etc, whilst QW has remained around the Newbie/Elementary level.

I think the QW format is ideal for a more in depth look at grammar. Points or structures which require more time could be covered in a series or in longer lessons. I'm not a grammar 'nut' - I do think that structures etc 'sink in' with repeated exposure, but there are times ( not infrequent ) when I need explanations; explanation directs my attention

and enables further 'unconscious' assimilation of material at a higher level in a sort of dialectical process. The audio input of CPod would be a fantastic way to reinforce what I am already trying to learn through the dry text-book method. My own method at the moment is to concentrate on a single grammar point for a couple of weeks and identify and study examples of it in my reading.

By the way, I think xiaophil is probably right about what you should do - if I can handle a higher level of grammar I'm sure that you can; we don't have to know everything before we take one step further.

加油！

I feel that maybe at this point your level is high enough that just a look at the pdf's would suffice.

I kind of think maybe those lessons were marked intermediate due to them being used slightly less frequently than previous discussed points in other lessons, and not because they are particularly more difficult. Maybe that's just me, though.

I just looked at #131 and #132 again, and apart from some of the vocabulary, I don't think there's anything there which an Ele couldn't handle : In #132 we just get a definition of 舍不得 and examples of it's use with verbs and nouns. In #131 we learn that 难道 is a marker used usually with 吗 type questions. It would have been interesting to have had it spelled out to us why two of the example sentences do not end in 吗 despite John telling us that all the examples end in 吗。

I agree with zhenlijiang. What I want to see most is an elementary QW that can be an eye-opener even for intermediate/advanced learners.Yeah, I know it's not so easy to make out this kind of QW.

Well I do know you're talking about content (the level of questions addressed), not labeling, but just wanted to point that out.

The most basic grammar points can feel like trouble for us because we're learners who don't have the repeated experience (= confidence) of native speakers; we get the urge to ask and feel all clear on questions that would never occur to native speakers. And the most basic grammar points are difficult for native speakers to explain thoroughly and clearly.

Maybe a new (I'm not sure that what we're talking about here is necessarily higher-level grammar. I think that we're talking about a place for Intermediate - Advanced learners to discuss more "advanced" questions on grammar points) grammar show would be a good idea.

If CPod feels that QW can accommodate such needs, or can be re-positioned to do so, that would be cool with me.

Hmmm, I honestly didn't notice that they rate them. In that case, I would say, yeah, how about some upper-intermediate lessons and higher.

I just noticed you rarely comment. What an honor! haha