Is there a counterpart for Chinglish?

xiaophil

March 07, 2010, 12:12 AM posted in General Discussion

What I mean is, is there a word that refers to Chinese that is negatively influenced by the speaker's native toungue, English? Has anyone heard anything before? I think I have said reverse-Chinglish, but I'm not sure if I have heard others say that. At any rate, I think there should be a word that doesn't have Chinglish built into it.

I officially nominate:

Englinese
or 英式中文 (although appropriate for telling one's problem when speaking Chinese, I think it seems less funny)

Any ayes? Nayes? Other suggestions?

changye

March 07, 2010, 12:44 AM

Hi xiaophil

This is not an answer to your question, but there is the word "和習漢文" (和习汉文) in Japanese, which indicates "classical Chinese that is negatively influenced by Japanese" or "Japan flavored classical Chinese". In Japan, "classical Chinese" (文言) had long been considered an essential discipline for male intelligentsia until the end of the war.

xiao_liang

March 08, 2010, 02:50 PM

Urban Dictionary is your friend:

"A style of speaking English by native born Chinese people, that is formed by the natural differences in our languages. Certain fundamental differences are difficult to overcome, even if the speaker is highly educated. Simple things can come into play, from the fact that the Chinese word for he and she is the same word, "TA", to the lack of any "V" sound in their entire language.

Interesting side note: the word "usually" seems to be the most difficult word for a Mandarin Chinese speaker to say in English.

English - My husband (he) took me to a restaurant last night.

Chinglish - My husband, last night she take me restaurant.

English - Hey, we shouldn't buy a sportscar, we should buy a mini-van.

Chinglish - Hi, we should not buy sportscar, we should buy mini-wan."

tvan

March 07, 2010, 01:24 AM

If there's a counterpart in Chinese, I certainly don't know it. However, here's a link to Engrish.com's Top 100. (You have to click on each link for the actual Chinese/English.)

I would laugh but, like bodawei, I'm afraid that it probably bears a close resemblance to my Chinese sometimes.

bababardwan

tvan,

哈哈大笑.Thanks mate,I haven't visited Engrish.com for a while and I hadn't seen many of them...hilarious...现在我哭的笑声。感谢

bababardwan

March 07, 2010, 01:40 AM

tvan,

哈哈大笑.Thanks mate,I haven't visited Engrish.com for a while and I hadn't seen many of them...hilarious...现在我哭的笑声。感谢

xiaophil

March 07, 2010, 02:19 AM

I mean the Chinese that comes out of an Englinese speaker is poor Chinese by the standards of literate Chinese people.

xiaophil

March 07, 2010, 02:20 AM

How about Englidarin? English + Mandarin

bodawei

March 07, 2010, 02:37 AM

I am wondering whether the Chinese have their own intra-Chinese version of Chinglish? (It would need to be spoken of course.) There is such a range of dialects, and I know the educated Chinese likes to make fun of the way the farmers speak.

As an aside, a friend has just returned from travel in a part of my province where NONE of the residents speaks Chinese - cool hey? It was rather bizarre apparently - there were Buddhist monks who spoke some English but apparently no Chinese. (I found that bit rather hard to comprehend.)

bodawei

March 07, 2010, 01:17 AM

Most of my Chinese is Englinese..

In May 2007 I saw an exhibition in Hong Kong titled Chinglish - an attempt to grapple with this idea. (It was not about funny signs where Chinese people have failed to grasp the English language.) It was subtitled something like 'an examination of the unique language of Hong Kong' - but this 'borderlands' phenomenon is of course not unique.

I am sure that a linguist would have a technical word for it ..

I'm not clear why you describe it as a 'negative' influence - do you mean that it permanently undermines the language? If so, I will go out on a limb and suggest that English is unlikely to undermine Chinese to any great extent, not in my lifetime anyway.

Do you mean some kind of temporary blurring of the language in the process of learning to become bilingual ..?

BTW, there was a discussion about this kind of thing a few months ago somewhere else on the boards.

xiaophil

I mean the Chinese that comes out of an Englinese speaker is poor Chinese by the standards of literate Chinese people.

bodawei

I thought so, but it is kind of interesting; I suggest that this is not an exact counterpart for Chinglish. Chinglish is recognised as funny by barely literate native-born English speakers (we can all enjoy them), but your Englinese would be recognised by only the 'elite'. If your definition had Englinese recognised as poor Chinese by most Chinese people, you have a counterpart for Chinglish. 对吧？

I'm assuming the word 'literate' takes on its more metaphorical meaning of highly educated, as it is often used in English. A literate Australian reads the Book Review in the Saturday newspapers. Someone who just reads the form guide is technically literate but we would not describe these people as such. Me, I just do the crosswords these days.

xiaophil

Oh, I guess I am not narrowing down "literate" so much. I just meant a Chinese person who can easily communicate in Chinese and can read most normal publications without problem. I don't mean to just leave it to the elites to decide. Actually, a Chinese person with poor spoken Mandarin skills might even count if they can understand Mandarin when spoken and written. As I understand it, most Chinese dialects have virtually the same grammar, so if they were to read my Chinese, they might instantly recognize something is amiss.

changye

March 07, 2010, 03:26 AM

"Englinese" doesn't necessarily represent "English/Chinese". It can also indicate "English/Japanese".

xiaophil

I thought about that too, that's why I also suggested Englidarin. But I have to say that Englidarin doesn't flow well and doesn't even necessarily conjure up Mandarin in my head. The more I think about it. Why not have the word flexible and indicate more than one language. According to context we should know which language we are talking about.

Okay, thinking way too much, hehe.

Tal

March 07, 2010, 01:43 PM

xiaophil

March 08, 2010, 12:36 AM

Okay, thinking way too much, hehe.

zhenlijiang

March 08, 2010, 10:06 AM

英式中文 seems common, and clear in meaning too.

Elsewhere I've mentioned "writing English in hanzi", wonder if that discussion is what Bodawei was referring to. Of course that only applies when you're writing.

How about "hopeful Chinese", or some variation on it? I think that conveys the sense of inadequacy in a way you couldn't if you said "hopeless Chinese".

changye

HI zhenlijiang

I love "hopeful/hopeless Chinese". They are just hilarious! How about "self-claimed Chinese"?

zhenlijiang

Changye I actually do quite like "hopeful Chinese" if I may say so myself! "Hopeless Chinese" doesn't really get the point across I think.

Maybe "self-styled"? or "self-professed"?

bodawei

@Zhenlijaing, Changye

I have long had the desire to make up Chinese words (using of course templates that I have learned) - I am always surprised and even disappointed when I discover that there is no such Chinese word! I think that this illustrates Hopeful Chinese so I am with you on that Zhenlijiang.