Everyday expressions that Native Speakers Seldom use
bababardwan
April 19, 2010, 02:26 PM posted in General DiscussionI'm trying to avoid wimp lo sydrome here.We all remember learning ni hao ma? for hello,how are you? only to find that native Chinese never [or rarely] use this expression.I know some of this has been discussed here and there before but I thought it might be useful to have some examples of common words or phrases that are taught to westerners in various resources collected and discussed in one place here ,along with examples or postulations of what they use instead.
bodawei
Hi Barbs, well I don't agree with your first one - 加油 is definitely used by native speakers. It is an interesting topic though - particularly how the language changes. There are new words and expressions coming in and old ones being used less frequently, then not at all. And the influence from English/the West can be tracked. Can't think of anything right at the moment - I try to ignore anything not used by native speakers.
John
April 20, 2010, 04:17 AMIt's hard to make sure a general example, since regional variation can account for a lot. Outdated textbooks are a big part of the problem, but I still think 你好吗？ is the most persistent example.
bodawei
April 18, 2010, 12:47 PMHi Barbs, well I don't agree with your first one - 加油 is definitely used by native speakers. It is an interesting topic though - particularly how the language changes. There are new words and expressions coming in and old ones being used less frequently, then not at all. And the influence from English/the West can be tracked. Can't think of anything right at the moment - I try to ignore anything not used by native speakers.
suansuanru
April 18, 2010, 03:58 PMAs a chinese speaker,i prefer to say"最近怎么样"rather than "你好吗",and "嘿"rather than “你好”,But now i say "你好"more than before by the influence of foreign people who is learning chinese.
And i think we rarely use the sentence of"ren shi ni hen hao xing".Almost never.i think the way of saying it comes from English.
But we do have a way to express such meaning,it is "幸会".
changye
Hi suansuanru
I recently bought an interesting book called 《现代汉语欧化语法现象研究》 (商务印书馆). It seems that modern Mandarin Chinese has been more influenced by European languages, mainly English, than I thought before. Actually, the same holds true for Japanese, my native tongue.
suansuanru
谢谢你的推荐，我对这种书很感兴趣，想找来看看。
bodawei
嘿 (Hey) .. I hear myself saying that more and more. It is interesting because it comes from English, but in English it is very casual, verging on impolite unless used just between friends.
I actually notice Chinese people say 你好 to each other - even older people - and have been surprised. I think they got this from foreigners, as you say, but they seem to enjoy saying it now.
Also, I am giving up 认识你很高兴 as of NOW. Now you mention it, when I say that I get odd looks. Thanks for 幸会.
changye
April 18, 2010, 05:23 PMHi suansuanru
I recently bought an interesting book called 《现代汉语欧化语法现象研究》 (商务印书馆). It seems that modern Mandarin Chinese has been more influenced by European languages, mainly English, than I thought before. Actually, the same holds true for Japanese, my native tongue.
xiaophil
April 19, 2010, 12:10 AMI think we all know that we have to be careful when using the word 同志 as its meaning has changed dramatically in recent years. Interestingly enough, one of the first phrases I ever learned was "同志，请问". Kinda glad I never used that one.
Two others come to mind, but really don't count as they are regional. Namely, 劳驾 and 咱们 are in all textbooks but you rarely hear them in Shanghai, and from what I hear in the southern provinces in general.
changye
Hi xiaophil
I hear 劳驾 is often used in Beijing, but I don't know if young Beijinger also like using the word. As for “咱们”, I guess we don't have much opportunities to hear it partly because we 老外 are NOT a member of “咱们” after all, hehe.
xiaophil
Changye
I just thought of a question that perhaps you can answer. The southern regions of China usually have a local language that is distinct from Mandarin. How come when they learn Mandarin, they tend to not like using certain words that are very common in places like Beijing, where the local dialect is more-or-less Mandarin? For example, Northerners like to say 挺好的, while Southerners prefer 蛮好的. It has never made sense that when learning Mandarin, they don't copy the people who are truly native speakers of it.
Another thing, I have heard that Southerners prefer saying 那里 over 那儿 because they have trouble saying 'r' sounds. Was the word 那里 created just to make it easier for Southerners to pronounce, i.e. was 那里 basically invented to aid Southerners in learning Mandarin?
Anyway, I know you like a linguistic challenge, but don't break your back over it if it is too hard or doesn't interest you.
suansuanru
the 那里 queation is interesting.
bodawei
You do hear the r sound as an l in parts of the south, but of course that doesn't mean that people don't say er. The 儿 sound exists. But the r that sounds like an l has struck me in places. Don't know if that helps much.
changye
Hi xiaophil
I've just noticed your question. Sorry for the late reply.
Probaly southern Chinese people learn "authentic putonghua" mainly through textbooks at school. I don't think the authorities have positive reason to intentionally teach students in southern regions words and phrases used in, for example, 北京土话 (Beijing local dialect).
That said, even southern people have a lot of opportunities to hear and read words used in other dialects such as 北京话 and 东北话 through novels, movies, TV, and Internet. The opposite is also true. A lot of words originated in southern dialects are used in putonghua now.
As for “那里”, this is basically a word originally used in classical Chinese, and it's still mainly used in southern (and also northern) dialects, which generally preserve ancient pronunciations and words in them. FYI, 那 was used in the sense of both 那 and 哪 before the 19th century.
xiaophil
Changye
Once again, thanks for your insight. I'm curious. I wonder if 那里 had both fourth and third tone pronunciations before the 19th century? Or was it just through context that a person knew the meaning?
changye
April 18, 2010, 12:30 PMHi bababardwan
The phrase "native speakers NEVER use" makes me hesitate to post a comment here..... 门槛有点太高了！
bababardwan
明白了。。给；新标题
bababardwan
April 19, 2010, 02:34 PM明白了。。给；新标题
bodawei
April 19, 2010, 02:47 PM嘿 (Hey) .. I hear myself saying that more and more. It is interesting because it comes from English, but in English it is very casual, verging on impolite unless used just between friends.
I actually notice Chinese people say 你好 to each other - even older people - and have been surprised. I think they got this from foreigners, as you say, but they seem to enjoy saying it now.
Also, I am giving up 认识你很高兴 as of NOW. Now you mention it, when I say that I get odd looks. Thanks for 幸会.
bodawei
April 19, 2010, 02:50 PMI think that people say 慢走 manzou more than 再见 zai jian。It is interesting that while still used as a formal farewell by complete strangers (eg. 服务员）， it is also very warm and commonly used between friends.
changye
April 19, 2010, 03:16 PMHi bodawei
Local people would definitely say “再见” to you when you leave China and go back to Australia.
changye
April 19, 2010, 02:04 AMHi xiaophil
I hear 劳驾 is often used in Beijing, but I don't know if young Beijinger also like using the word. As for “咱们”, I guess we don't have much opportunities to hear it partly because we 老外 are NOT a member of “咱们” after all, hehe.
bababardwan
April 18, 2010, 05:38 AMok ,first example. It has recently been pointed out to me that 加油 is rarely used by native speakers. Any thoughts ? ..and what do they use instead [my guess is that alternatives are going to be very much scenario dependant].