越...越... (yuè ... yuè ...)
go_manly
April 24, 2010, 01:18 AM posted in I Have a QuestionIn one of my grammar books, it is stated that in the 越[verb1]越[verb2]pattern, the first verb can be a stative verb or an activity verb (to use their terminology), but the second verb must be a stative verb. Stative verbs include what English speakers think of as adjectives.
So we can say, 我越吃越胖 (Wǒ yuè chī yuè pàng) The more I eat, the fatter I get.
But what if I wanted to say 'The fatter I get, the more I eat' ?
吃 is an 'activity verb', so if this book is correct, I can't say 我越胖越吃.
How would I say this, and how would I say 'The fatter I get, the less I eat' ?
go_manly
April 24, 2010, 02:48 AMThanks bodawei. How sure are you about the 2nd part of each sentence? It looks a bit strange to me.
bodawei
I'm not sure if my sentences are natural, or even strictly correct. I bow of course to the native speaker (suansuanru). I don't 'know' the structure he is using but can understand them. However, his sentences have a somewhat different meaning.
The first one is 'the fatter I get, the more I want to eat' - it is an understandable sentiment but not the same as your original. Mine has no 'wanting' in it.
The second is 'the fatter I get, the less I want to eat'. Again this has the sense of 'wanting'.
He is right that 'the fatter I get, eat' does not make sense.
zhenlijiang
Hi suansuanru, why do you have the 了 in #2 but not in #1? So is it OK, and exactly the same meaning, to do these too?
我越胖吃得就越多了。
我越胖吃得就越少。
bodawei
Ha ha suansuanru
I concede - i am talking like a kindergarten kid, hey? I forgot you can use 越 like this. I've re-learnt something, thanks. Useful stuff.
suansuanru
hi,i didn't see this before.
I think the reason why i put "了"is not important,the sentence is right without "了"。
It means "i dont want to be fatter "with a "了"。:)
zhenlijiang
It means "i dont want to be fatter "with a "了"。
I think I understand ... so if I translated your sentence 我越胖吃得就越少了。it would be like "Since I've been getting fatter I've been eating less."(to prevent further weight gain), is that right?
Then 我越胖吃得就越少。 would be simply "The fatter I get the less I eat."--is that right? Or maybe context is required to really know what the speaker means?
suansuanru
完全正确，你真聪明！
zhenlijiang
哇哈哈~但愿能变聪明点！
suansuanru
April 24, 2010, 05:36 AMhere's my opinion:
The fatter I get, the more I eat
我越胖就越想吃/ 我越胖吃得就越多。
The fatter I get, the less I eat
我越胖就越不想吃。
you may wonder why i put 就here,就perhaps means the situation happens "in the future"or a Subjunctive Mood in English.And when you say"越吃越胖"always means a past tenses in English.
I don't understand the meaning of"我越胖越吃",but you can say"我越胖(就)越想吃".
bodawei
April 24, 2010, 06:02 AMI'm not sure if my sentences are natural, or even strictly correct. I bow of course to the native speaker (suansuanru). I don't 'know' the structure he is using but can understand them. However, his sentences have a somewhat different meaning.
The first one is 'the fatter I get, the more I want to eat' - it is an understandable sentiment but not the same as your original. Mine has no 'wanting' in it.
The second is 'the fatter I get, the less I want to eat'. Again this has the sense of 'wanting'.
He is right that 'the fatter I get, eat' does not make sense.
trevorb
April 24, 2010, 09:17 PMCurious, I just listened to a lesson where Jenny and John did exactly the Eat/Fat of your example and they said that it could simply be swapped. I noted it because up till then I thought the pattern was always 越来越 something and hadn't realised the lai could be exchanged.
Can't remember what the lesson was now and as this was "expansion" rather than in the body of the lesson it may be harder to find. It may have been the Intermediate leaky pipes one.....
go_manly
April 26, 2010, 01:33 AMInteresting. Could someone from CPod read my initial question and comment.
John
April 26, 2010, 01:44 AMYes, they can be swapped. A quick Google search confirms this. Don't believe everything you read. :)
John
April 26, 2010, 01:46 AMYou're not going to hear it very often, but yes, you can say 我越胖越吃.
If you wanted to say, "the fatter I get, the less I eat," it would be:
我越胖越吃得少。
Again, you're not going to hear that very often, and it feels a bit awkward. The structure seems designed for "more... more..." statements.
go_manly
Thanks John. So my grammar book was wrong?
go_manly
April 26, 2010, 01:52 AMThanks John. So my grammar book was wrong?
bodawei
April 24, 2010, 01:37 AM我越来越胖，我吃的更多。 (the fatter I get, the more I eat)
我越来越胖，我吃的少。 (the fatter I get, the less I eat)