User Comments - bodawei

Posted on: Chinese Ethnic Minorities

Ha - yeah I got that, interesting. 西双 is a transliteration of Sibsong which is a transliteration of 十双 .. which might be a transliteration of an earlier Thai expression for all we know. why would it necessarily start with the Chinese?

There is a certain kudos attached to the job of naming things - especially place names.

Posted on: Chinese Ethnic Minorities

Hi sclim

From Wikipaedia: The native Thai name Sípsɔ́ng literally means "twelve" and Pǎnnǎ literally means "thousand rice fields (千亩)". So Sípsɔ́ŋpǎnnǎ = "twelve thousand rice fields".

The region had a former name, presumably 汉 Chinese, now preserved in the name of the capital city for the region 景洪市 jing gong shi. Which can be translated as 'flooded landscape'.

I actually quite like the transliteration of the original Thai/Dai - seems respectful to me, giving a link to the local culture. I'm not sure about mixing transliteration and direct meaning - it works beautifully sometimes. Here it works okay - because 版纳 means 坝 .. which as I said above could be translated as the flooded landscape. So the transliteration does convey a good deal of the meaning.

I'm not sure of what you said above about the name: 西双版纳, which has a Chinese meaning 西=4 (misleading), 双=pair (misleading), 版纳 (no relevant meaning) - not true is it? 版纳 does have a relevant meaning as it turns out. The 西 actually means 'west', but here it is just part of 西双, sounding like sipsong (meaning 12.)

Posted on: Chinese Ethnic Minorities

Very impressive research sclim. I am still absorbing it but I thought it might be helpful to point out that the 坝子 I referred to does indeed refer to a dam, but that 坝 by itself refers to the land 'behind' the dam - in fact it is also a geological term. The city I live in, Kunming is located in the 昆明坝 - this indicates that it is surrounded on all sides by mountains. I wonder if this has any relevance to the English translation you have 12 thousand ricefields? The 'thousand' bit I don't understand, but it seems to me that a rice paddy is similar to a 坝, being contained on all sides by 坝子.

Posted on: Chinese Ethnic Minorities

'but the British Chamber of commerce can organize memorable parties'

Sounds like you speak from experience. :)

Anyway, thanks again for the information. I think that business networking is rather informal in this city - I don't know of any chamber of commerce as such.

But it makes me reflect on 'circles' of expatriates in China - although there are relatively few (see my posts above) there are distinct groups and you can go years without meeting many people (who are in another 'group'). I was in a new bar/restaurant the other night - loads of foreigners were there and I did not know a single one. My friend opined that they might be the 'corporate' types - certainly foreign business/foreigners in Chinese business is exploding here. Maybe that bar is the chamber of commerce. :)

Posted on: Chinese Ethnic Minorities

I just spoke to a 19 year old 少数民族, mixed marriage, who does not know this rule. I have previously spoken to young Chinese who do not know the rules about the one-child policy. (Most have a vague idea, but no specifics.) Just raises a question for me: are people just not interested in finding these things out? Do they rely on the extended family to inform them? To me it says something about my own culture - we are thoroughly regulated and governed where I come from, and we have to learn the rules to survive. We even have civics classes at school so know how the system works. We rely on the government to a large extent to help us achieve our futures. It seems that in China government plays a less prominent role in people's lives - at least at the individual level. And that is quite beside the question of the nature of elections in China.

Clearly the Chinese government plays a big part in collective efforts and in building the nation - but maybe people don't see the opportunities for legal exploitation of the tax dollar (for our own purposes) to the extent that we do in the West.

Posted on: Chinese Ethnic Minorities

Hi kimiik

Thanks for elaborating on this for me. It does suggest a difference between the services we get from our governments.

'the registration with the consulate or the embassy was a security measure but nowadays it's mostly used as a network.'

That is very cool - I would kind of like to know how registering can be used as a network - do you get invited to consulate parties?

This might interest Australians who live close to an embassy or consulate - I think my closest might be Guangzhou or Hong Kong, bit far to drive home after the party.

Posted on: Chinese Ethnic Minorities

' I guess their having 2 different words Dai and Tai must imply some linguistic and cultural gap that must have occurred. But this is just a deduction on my part from what seems most likely, guessed mostly out of ignorance.'

I think you are getting on the right track with your second post, but I am no expert. By chance I just spoke to (1) a Chinese woman I know who has learned to speak Thai, and (2) a 傣族人 (not difficult where I live because there are many, but identifying them is not so easy - she actually looks 汉族 to me.)

The first woman said that to her knowledge Thai and 傣语 are quite different, but she really knows nothing much about 傣语. But she does know someone who speaks both - I may be able to put you in contact, but she speaks no English at all.

She also supported your observation that Thailand has a number of minorities and that the dialects are quite distinct. The language she has learned is the equivalent of 普通话 in Thailand.

The second woman noted that 傣语 has its own written form - this is not so for many of the Chinese dialects. However, it is restricted to Buddhist priests (this I found very interesting.) Here is a 傣族 woman who could not write her own name in her language. She also said that all 傣族人 are Buddhists, another interesting comment (a bit like Greek Orthodox in Greece and Catholics in France?)

The area of China that is home to the 傣族 is 西双版纳 - I am sure many poddies know this. But here is an interesting language point - the 西双 is a Chinese transliteration of the 傣语 language. The two characters mean 十二坝子(12 dams.) It is a wet part of the country. :)

Lastly, and this might be a clue to your observation about how the people have grown apart on either side of the national border, the people in China follow 小城佛教 and the people in Thailand follow 大城佛教 (Thai Buddhism.) No doubt this way oversimplifies the situation - I am not very conversant with Buddhism, but I thought I would mention this because it does suggest that there are some cultural differences on either side of the border. I was also interested that although this woman has lived quite close to the border she has never been to Thailand.

Posted on: Cold Noodles

'watered-down peanut butter'

I'll have to ask Jenny for the recipe. :)

Posted on: Cold Noodles

okay .. there is a bit of a difference between satay sauce and 四季宝 (Skippy) peanut butter. I had visions of Jenny ladling peanut butter out of a jar onto her noodles.

.. with satay I think of peanuts blended in a food processor and the sauce prepared fresh. Well, come to think of it not a great deal difference in taste, but satay does sound more professional.

Peanuts are a staple food here, no question.

'the thin meat strips threaded on sticks'

There is a classic late night mainland Chinese version, cooked over coals (not the same as your Singapore-Malay version granted), eaten on the way home when you missed your proper dinner. China's kebab.

Posted on: Chinese Ethnic Minorities

I understand that China occupied that area of Thailand for some considerable time.

'before the Thais and Dai's split off from each other as quasi distinct entities'

Is this just a political boundary you are referring to or are you suggesting something else?

If you want to IM me I could perhaps put you in touch with someone who can speak with more authority about the 傣族. Actually it is not hard to find a Chinese person who speaks Thai (very large Chinese population in Thailand, and a lot of cross-border business), but finding one who speaks both Thai and Dai - that is a good question.