那么 and 这么

go_manly

Thanks Jason. I just want to hit you with one of the CPod Expansion sentences:

那么多事要做，烦死了。(Nàme duō shì yào zuò, fánsĭ le.) So much to do, I'm irritated to death.

Why is 那么 used here. I can't see the distance you refer to.

suansuanru

hi.

Heres my opinion.

I think Jason is right when "这么"and“那么”were regarded as "verb"（+adjective）.

But when you say"那么多事"，"那么"+“多”become a "adj"which can be used to describe"事"。

for example:那么大的房子。

这么好的外语水平。

and

go_manly

Thanks for that. But can you tell me why 那么多事 is chosen over 这么多事 ?

bodawei

Go_manly seems confused by the use of 'distance' in your explanation. You have tried to differentiate the location of the object being described, right? 那么 and 这么 both mean 'so' in these cases, but you use one or the other depending on the position or location of the object being described? In the case of the expansion sentence I would think use of 那么 versus 这么 depends on the location of the 'work' relative to the speaker. If the speaker was at their desk waving their hands at a pile of papers, could they say 这么多事要做，烦死.了？

suansuanru

it is just like Jason said:"那么 indicates distance from the speaker, and 这么 indicates closeness to the speaker. "

For example

1."那么多事"is better when you known you will do a lot of things tomorrow which you are bored of .The things to be done are always in your mind.

2.You are in front of your desk while looking at the document that is waiting to be tackled,so you and watch them and say"这么多事要做"。

go_manly

Thanks bodawei and suansuanru. It makes more sense now. I still wonder at the need for 2 words though.

bodawei

I don't think that it is critical - you can use either and get away with it.

suansuanru

If the speaker was at their desk waving their hands at a pile of papers, could they say 这么多事要做，烦死.了？

对。

changye

Can you apply the same logic to the usage of "this" and "that" in English?

go_manly

I'm not sure I understand the question. Don't 这么 and 那么 both mean 'so ...' ? 'This' and 'that' don't mean 'so'.

changye

Hi go_manly

Can you say "this many ～" or "that many ～" in English?

go_manly

Ok, I see now. Yes, you can. But neither carries the feeling of 'so many'. That is they don't mean 'a surprisingly larger number'.

changye

I see your point. I just thought the same logic might work when you decide which to use, this/这么 or that/那么.

zhenlijiang

Mm? I think they do. Or can, anyway.

go_manly

Well I wanted to delete my comment, because I realised it was wrong. But we can now add 'delete' to the list of things not working.

changye

Looks like the usage of "this/that" is more complicated than I expected.....

bodawei

I don't know whether you got an answer Changye - Go_manly says that he wanted to change his comment and I think I understand why. 'This many' and 'that many' can (I believe) convey the idea of 'so many' in English, just like the Chinese 这么 /那么 - but I cannot think how this would work without emphasis being placed on the THIS many and THAT many. Maybe English is also a tonal language? Without the emphasis 'this many' and 'that many' are just objective statements.