Why are people put off from posting here?

Haha ! No worries !

Brick:

I notice that you switched back to your real picture again - no worries about those face-recognition algorithms? :P

Hi Biggles! - what we think we understand or what we like or what we dislike all depend on something more than the analogies and models we use to make sense of things. To me an organically growing system develops like a neglected garden, and develops in a different direction when will is applied. Who is to say which way is best ?

It's not about content, that's a matter of taste; I enjoy keeping tabs on Changye's gentle and informative contributions, and Baba's pranks, as much as my time will permit. It's more about ubiquity. Mercifully, the situation seems to have improved after the introduction of 'threading'.

That sounds like a good idea !

"Whingeing", I like that word. In German we call it "Herumgenörgel".

Ref. your suggestion: Why not show to everybody, how many users ticked that little box? Plus a high score list, telling everybody here: "Stop it!" ;-) ;-)

Hi Hape. Like yourself, I've always wanted to see a much more diverse mix of people and groups on the Pod. Your question was: 'Why are people put off from posting here ?', and I think mikeinewshot (5 days ago) neatly summed it up. His comment certainly captured my feelings. It seems that 'threading' is having some impact - I'm seeing many more different people making comments now. Well done CPod !

I am still alive, but even after 5 days tired of this thread. The discussion isn't anyway about the original topic.

。。此外，这里是生命

@Brick

I think that the very accommodating Hape pointed out to poddies what level of involvement is possible without paying a cent. (You can continue posting on Community - it is Lessons that you are barred from - correct?) Didn't he reach 'Top Ten' status?? Where is Hape by the way? It looks like his post has been 'hijacked' and we know what he thinks about that kind of behaviour. He he.

Seriously, he posted some useful links and even educated us on the use of the site that we pay for - a community service worth noting.

呵呵 ,glad you liked it mate.You've gotta continue on here,we're in for a huge year.I think a lot of things are really coming together here.Plenty of time for life later. :)

LUV IT! :-P

Chanelle + Changye: Here's a compromise just for you :-) It's the one bababardwan suggested. There's definitely some resemblance. I nearly fell off my perch when I saw it Haha.

How come I'm able to write this ? I thought my subscription ran out today. I thought I was going to be able to get on with my life !

Hi helletherebrick

I miss your old avator very much. I'm always contradicting myself, hehe. I also hope you'll come back soon. Thanks to that discussion with you on ancient European characters, I "ended up" buying several books on the history of European characters last year. Good luck!

Brick, liked the real avatar better (although it is not a pretty sight for sore eyes *wink wink*)!

Nice to see real people (or their pets :-) )!

呵呵，我看到你在左边真的应用了脸红：

http://blog.project76.tv/Images/2iGNh7_testcardboosh.jpg

我自己用脸蓝，哈哈

Hey, I'm blushing now ! Don't worry, I'm a man with a mission, hehe.

Hey Mr Brick make sure you get that paper-round and return soon. Our Northern English ranks will seem depleted in your absence.

Getting back onto the topic, it’s people like yourself who have tempted lurkers like myself to creep (sideways) from their rocky crevices.

没有；说实在，我发现Billy Bennett当我用谷歌。。不好意思因为我辜负。

其实，我喜欢谜语所以请继续把

Haha! On your toes tonight, Eh ! There's another parody of "The Green Eye of the Little Yellow God" which we used to sing in the showers after rugby. Modesty forbids me from posting THAT one, but I'm sure you'll find it most delectable.

这是一个Billy Bennett的戏仿

。。而且，我不同意你是一个“大”飞机的人

我现在醒醒了和猛醒明显谁你叫“蝙蝠侠”不过我不同意他是一个草风趣。

You're right. The classic C version is magnificent ! Thanks ! The old subscription expires tomorrow and my piggy-bank is almost empty, so it'll be a while before broadcasts resume - unless I take on a second paper-round.

I dunno....I think your present incarnation is charming; such a homely, friendly crab. My kind of crab ( don't take that the wrong way - I could never fall deeply for something which walks sideways )

:-)

classy!

Interesting change of avatar Brick I hope normal service will be resumed shortly. What made you choose the Test Card F?

I personally prefer the classic C version

http://www.meldrum.co.uk/mhp/testcard/bbc_test.html

sorry not sure how to attach images in threaded comments

But then who am I to comment on avatars?

Sorry this has nothing to do with anything.

(cruelty to little dogs)

Hi Changye. I'd like to see you in the tights as well.

(joking).

Here's one for the road (don't think you'll like it much, though)

There's a little sallow idle man lives north of Waterloo,

And he owns the toughest music hall in town.

There are broken hearted comics, there's a grave yard for them too,

And the gallery gods are ever gazing down.

He was known as Fat Caroo in the pubs round Waterloo

And he wore a green tie with a diamond pin;

He was worshipped in the ranks

By the captain of the swanks and the coal man's daughter

Loved his double chin.

He had loved her all along

And, despite his ong-bong-pong,

The fact that she loved him

They say was right,

Though her complexion was a fake

And her teeth were put and take

(Put in by day and taken out by night).

Twas the fifteenth anniversary of her twentysecond year,

So he Smiled at her as sweetly as a hog

And asked what present she would like and jestingly she said,

'Your green tie for my little yellow dog.'

Fat Caroo seemed in a trance

And his heart slipped through his pants,

But he tried his utmost not to look a wreck.

So he handed her the tie and kissed her hand goodbye, and when he bowed his head she bit his neck.

Later on Caroo came to. His tie had gone it's true

And his tie pin with it.

He seemed in a fog,

He rushed like mad to find that she'd tied that tie behind

To the tailpiece of her little yellow dog.

She was screaming like a child,

The dog was running wild,

Biting policemen as he galloped up the straight;

For the little dog called Tom

When he wagged his to and from

Felt the tie pin urged him on to meet his fate.

The dog returned at dawn with his windscreen slightly torn

And on seeing took something from the lady's room.

To another room he flew, saying,'That's for Fat Caroo'

And silently he slunked out into the gloom.

When Caroo jumped into bed he'd ''ve wakened up the dead,

With a scream as he fell like a hog.

Her false teeth they were buried in the seat of Fat Caroo 'Twas the vengeance of that little yellow dog.

There's a cockeyed yellow poodle to the north of Gonga Pooch,

There's a little hot cross bun that's turning green,

There's a double jointed woman doing tricks in ChooChinChoo, And your're a better man that I am Gunga Din.

See y'all next year !

Did you know that, after being overused by governments, public use of face recognition on the web is on the verge ?

Hi hellotherebrick,

the next step in that logic: Why are you using a pseudonym instead of a real name?

I myself also prefer to see and use real images. But we all need to be aware that this is not far from being identified with name and address.

I admit that the "Find Similar" functions of Google or Bing are not quite there yet. But they are working on it.

Hi hellotherebrick

Shall I use my real face avator in Batman mask next time? hehe. Joking aside, I think I see your point now. Thanks.

2nd mystery in a row.I give up.Which one of us is batman? ...and why take a swing at anyone?...we all have a common interest here,so what's wrong with being mates?

Hi changye

Nope, it's not a dating site. It would just be nice to see the person to whom we are speaking (in my opinion) because then we get the impression that we are speaking to a real person. Hiding the face or eyes means that the person is trying to hide something else - the real person. This is pretty common for teenagers, and that's okay; but we all have to grow up sometime. Take Batman (above) for example - he's worried that no-one would take him seriously if he revealed his secret identity.

You seem to be a good bloke, Changye. I'm not taking a personal swing at you. I also know that there's no chance of a policy of real face avatars being implemented, but I still like to voice my opinion.

To tell you the truth, my chubby dog is not so happy with the current avator, because the photo was taken before she washed her face.

Why the quotation marks, henning? Do you speak of personal experience?

changye,

...you have no idea.

No wonder - probably "healthy and attractive young" dogs don't write PMs, even when they are looking for a suitable "study partner". :P

matthiask, as you can see, I'm hardly what people (esp those put off by VFPs) would call "staying away". The restriction I imposed on myself is one that makes sense (my level is Intermediate). There is nothing lost, and I am led to believe, only value gained.

Changye do you think I would spend that much time or energy in that discussion if I didn't take it seriously? For me it was not discussion just for discussion's sake.

I don't enjoy debating this issue, not any more (so this will probably be my last time). If it ever comes up again, I will only contribute ideas and suggestions for things that can be done to take care of the "problem" (that many will object to no doubt). But like I said to Bob (go_manly), I used to be more concerned; now that I've become resigned to the way we people are, much less.

I didn't mean to phish for sympathy or try to earn credit here. I just wanted to assure people who may be put off that I'm not utterly, uncontrollably, boundlessly incontinent.

I don't see the point of staying away from participation in a call for participation. I think, used right, the threaded comments as they are now are the best thing happened since sliced bread without crust.

Hi zhenlijiang

Don't take this issue so seriously. It's merely a discussion for discussion's sake. Participants in that "marathon discussion" are all frequent posters, me included, and they are just enjoying debating this never-ending issue.

感谢你的支持和都你的帖子。。总是有趣而诚实表示你的自己的看法

(Thanks for the mention Tvan. 可是我真的不敢当)

Haha. A long time ago when I was young a lawyer I was working with told me I could make a good litigator. He didn't mean that in a flattering sense, I know.

OK thanks for clarifying that Hape.

As I said, many of us just had that discussion recently, a grueling one (did you read it? if you are interested in this I really wish you would try to when you have the time, to know what's been said already, recently, on this issue). It's not that it's simply difficult for us to have the discussion.

Thanks for that, Chris. Pretty much my feelings exactly. Amber's contributions were far superior to anyone else's. After her, the second most useful contributions came from mikeinewshot (non Cpod) with his vocabulary lists.

Anyway, I hope you're making good use of that character dictionary. Maybe one day I will have an Intermediate dictionary, but there is so much new vocabulary in intermediate, it will be huge.

go_manly

A good question. My high level observations would be:-

- there have always been great learning value posts in the Discussions and in particular, poddies are raising great questions directly related to the dialogues or the expansions (I always leave the Discussion review to last and 9 times out of 10, the queries that I planned to post have already been asked by a fellow poddie). This in fact is one of the advantages of me being somewhat behind the curve with my lessons, since by the time I do a lesson all the discussion comments are already there and chances are my questions have already been covered.

- having said the above, the learning value-add posts are often drowned out by the non-learning posts and i must confess it can be tiring reading through everything. This is not to say that the other posts aren't interesting/fun, it's just that I'd like to be able to quickly isolate the value-add posts (which is why I like RJ's suggestion above). Then, if I'm at a loose end, I can read through the other posts at my leisure.

- In terms of answers to the questions posed by poddies, my view is that the golden era was when Amber was at CPod. She seemed incredibly adept at very quickly finding the questions posted (even the new ones on lessons that were months old) and providing good, clear responses, often in english, pinyin and hanzi.

- following Amber's departure, I noticed the issue identified by other poddies that queries would just hang for a long time, maybe getting answered maybe not.

- however, i've noticed a very marked improvement from CPod again in this area during 2009. It seems there is now a dedicated "Cpod team" who scour the boards and answer poddies queries. I've seen too many "team" names to mention, but Connie and Helen do stand out.

One other point of interest, there seemed to be a peak in the overall number of discussion comments (at least across the newbie/ele/inter lessons) around late 08/early 09, but this has significantly tailed off during second half of 09 (note I am only up to Sep09 so can't comment for more recent lessons). Of course, there are the occasional lessons which I open and see 100+ comments, but this is much rarer now. I suspect this is a direct consequence of the new comment policy.

Anyway, apologies for the rambling post. But I hope that gives a flavour of my personal experiences.

Chris,

PS - if I recall correctly, it was you that uploaded that character dictionary from all newbie/ele lessons a few months back. Thanks again for that!

chris

Just wondering about your opinion regarding the progression of "language learning value" in the discussions since 2006. Was there a peak, and if so, when? I'm only asking because you say you have studied the lessons in order of date of publication, so you are probably the best person to ask.

Clear as mud.

You're starting to miss the point, and I'm getting really tired of this thread. Pls look again. Where do I say his manner is wrong? Hape asked what could have caused me to think he was put off, I explained. This he may consider to be helpful feedback for future reference. Your opinion too of course (after all I'm not pretending to be a native speaker of English, or an authority).

I say, "I would not have~". I'm explaining to him how it is possible for me to conclude that he was put off, you see.

"Maybe I've misunderstood you somewhat," I also explain, "... I suppose it all rubbed me the wrong way".

Hope that's clear.

Zhenlijiang: I don't think there is anything wrong with Hape's manner of communicating. I would use the phrase "dominated by a handful of people" without rancour because that is the appearance of things, like it or not. Perhaps you will interpret this as hostility; it's not meant to be. If you don't agree with this observation, fair enough; but tackle the point, not the person.

As I am not a native English speaker, my usage of English is of course limited. Unfortunately I am not able to communicate with all the nuances one may expect...

And: what's wrong to discuss/communicate the usage of non-CP resources?

OK so I need to explain this. Maybe because of the title of this post (and you seem to have arrived at this conclusion already, how is that?) of yours. That could give people that idea.

And no. I said--look up there!--it's a matter of the manner in which one communicates, not that you aren't allowed to start a discussion. Maybe I've misunderstood you somewhat, but you can look at your post and try to see why I seem to be reacting negatively to it. It's mostly because I would not communicate like you did if I were not put off and trying my best to maintain a positive tone, let people know I am speaking constructively. I would not have linked to the list of "the same group of 10-20 persons". I would not have used the words "dominated by a handful of people". When I say "Sometimes threads are even changed in topic from this inner circle (like this one) - ok, you cannot prohibit this, but this may put people off ..." I know there is a pretty high likelihood that people will take that to mean I am put off. So if I am not I will be cautious and insert a disclaimer there, an explanation. Perhaps this is a question of English usage, I don't know. But do you see what I mean? And coming so soon after your list of things to do this year in your Chinese studies, all of which pointedly use non-CPod resources, I suppose it all rubbed me the wrong way.

I have no interest in kicking non-paying users out of the forum. I was one for a few days recently (but then I did withhold complaints/suggestions I had about these discussion boards until I started paying again).

Anyway you could, I think, have raised the issue in a more clearly constructive manner.

zhenlijiang, why do you think that I am put off? In fact, I am not. John posted on October 30, 2009 on this page (near bottom) exactly what my feelings are. My original post is only about how the forum's diversity could be improved. Or should it not? It seems so that - in your opinion - I am not allowed to start such a discussion because - until now - I am "not willing" to pay. Seems it would be better to kick all non-payers out of the forum! I am ready.

zhen,

oh yeah,you're right,I'd read that over 19 hours ago though and forgot [jeepers,short term memory problem].I was just following on from the comment about tal not qualifying in his book as I took it above.Ah that feels so much better,to have a few mates with you when you're before the judge and jury.I was so lonely before you pointed that out so thanks.Now I await my sentencing in much better spirits. :)

果然，不过你不喜欢我的歌词翻译吗？你明白这个歌是哪，对不对？

。。而且，我同意这样的废话真的可能好玩

对，昨天我觉得了听起来那种不过我不太确定了

Baba: It's just a nonsense rhyme, but it makes as much sense as most of what went before. It's all just empty words, but it's kinda fun too. Kids get it immediately.

我昨天晚上怀疑这是废话，而现在我看到这真的是废话。这个网站显示：

http://www.btinternet.com/~donovans/ged/nonsense.htm

现在第一神秘是解决

啊，你太聪明，我不好意思因为我得是一个笨蛋；我不明白。。真是一个神秘。麻烦你，这有什么意思？

The elephant is a pretty bird,

It flits from bough to bough.

It builds it's nest in a rhubarb tree

and twitters like a cow.

给我爱，给我爱，给我。。和平在地。。。

【大家都来【如果你们敢敢】，继续把。。。】

我觉得你们的争论法都是真厉害，不过我有一个建议；要不如果你们打算继续，你们就写在中文。。这样我们都可以学会怎么保护在中文，而且不会恐怖对Newbies，呵呵 ：）

Mirror therapy?!

I'll bow to the knowledge of one who must enjoy looking in them. So mate, are those looney bin stripes you're wearing in that pic you're so proud of? Things are starting to make sense now.

Ey Up, Pontificus ! That's a crap stab at humour. Have you had a Titterectomy ? You ought to get out of the house more and exercise those chuckle-muscles before they atrophy completely.

Don't worry, I can prescribe the perfect antidote for Toweringegoitis: It takes the form of a course of treatment. For the first month you must set aside an half hour each day to spend in your rubber room with a mirror. After that it's chemotherapy, I'm afraid. We can take a crack at your acne at the same time, if you like - Buy One Get One Free.

See you later Master Baiter.

;-)

Laying more bait, Achilles? brickie now receives the honorable order of the MB. (That means he's a Master Baiter.)

How about FWs (Faceless Wonders) ??

:-)

EFPs, VFPs, FPs, too many acronyms! I'm just stating a fact that it requires a little effort to participate in any sort of group. It takes a little effort to talk to random people at the tennis club I joined recently, almost all of whom I don't know, but they're friendly enough. However, the club puts on plenty of events so that it's easy to get to know people, and similarly ChinesePod can organise itself in a way that makes it easier for newcomers to participate. There will always be a group of people who post frequently (though this is probably slightly healthier than propping up the bar, like they do at tennis).

haha, why not have CPod add a clarification, in bold, to the Comments Policy--"all users are welcome and encouraged to post comments and join discussions, the omnipresence of EFPs (Extremely Frequent Posters) notwithstanding". Hey, it might just work.

True threading would make it much easier for newcomers just to ask questions and not feel like they're butting in, it would be back to square one if threading was switched off (though having the option for threading/chronological could be good). However, even then, someone may not feel like they have the "right" to join in, if they see all the posts by the same people. The main conversations page perhaps ought to be split into just normal posts, lesson posts and group postings in addition to true threading. Then for instance, people will notice that there are plenty of user posts written by people who are less regular.

rj

Like you, my preference is for no threading. But given that it seems like a fait accompli (is that the correct spelling?), I would prefer true threading to the current system. It is much neater and easier to use, and makes new comments much more readily accessible.

sorry zhenlijiang, I saw the 275 and gave up immediately without looking.

I still believe, in the current system, if a new user goes to the end of the comments and thinks about posting, he may be still be deterred if the immediately preceding comments appear to be part of an ongoing conversation, whether or not they are part of a thread. In true threading, each thread appears to be isolated from the rest. I know this is only in the mind, but if we want newcomers to post, I think it will make a difference.

Having said that, my personal (selfish) preference (ie. ignoring newcomers) is for no threading.

Bob, the number of comments is given at the top of the thread. Not all 275 comments are about this question of hape's, but you were in much of the relevant chunk of it. Like you, I too used to be more concerned before, now less and less.

I think even this current (not true?) threading solves the problem of users with a question uncomfortable with cutting into an ongoing conversation--doesn't it?

GM,

each lesson has 5 tabs including "discussion". I would add one called "lesson related questions". Then you can choose between discussion and the serious question tab. Staff could find questions easily and could easily transplant any non-question material back to the discussion page during their daily scans. No need for threading although I could take it or leave it. Everybody is happy and everything is easier. No?

hape, like you I can't be bothered reading through 275 comments (although I guess you must have, to have given me that reference).

I used to sit on your side of the fence (and I expressed my misgivings here like you), now it worries me less and less. But yes, there should be a way for newcomers to ask language-related questions without feeling like they are cutting into a conversation. I believe true threading would solve that problem, because there would be less aversion to posting a new thread.

Well tal didn't qualify as a VFP,and if we look at 2009's rankings that left only 2 currently active poddies that had commented more and changye ,though the most frequent poster for 2009 was told his contributions were highly valued [and rightly so...I agree;Jiayou changye] so indeed this last comment tends to indicate that it is not really a complaint here by the author of the number of posts but rather who is making those posts.It's a bit hard to see it otherwise but maybe I have it wrong.Regardless,it's not the first time I've heard this complaint and I am listening and trying to adjust,but it's hard when one is passionate about something.I've decided to make a more concerted effort to focus that passion better this year,but we are creatures of habit so it's hard to make promises,but I will try and as always be guided by CPod.But I do find it helpful posting in Chinese and interacting with the community...language does seem to be an essentially social thing and as I'm not living in China I have little output for it here.Hey mate,I wasn't offended at all by your comment..I know it was all lighthearted.Cheers mate and all the best to you. :)

baba, I doubt this thread was directed against you. And I was not suggesting you were posting merely to rack up comments. I was just jesting, probably more in response to changye's post. In any case, I've noticed your posts becoming more and more language orientated, especially with your transcript, and increasing communication in Hanzi - something which I have not been brave enough to try yet.

As far as I'm aware there are no details to hand but it has been referred to a couple of times,most recently here:

http://chinesepod.com/community/conversations/post/6549

..the idea seems to be to reward positive posts which is obviously a good idea[well encouraging postive posts is...how that will work out in practice remains to be seen].In an earlier discussion [see that really long thread referred to above about improving the CPod community and the initial associated blog post there was talk of a ranking system based on user feedback..I think the blog post did throw out some ideas of how this may work but it remains to be seen which format CPod decides upon].I never meant to imply that it will stop me posting.I merely mean that when this system is introduced ,the ratings being based on user feedback will mean I'll drop off the screen [and hopefully this will mean I'll upset fewer people....it is never my intention to upset anyone or to inspire a whole thread against me,but somehow inadvertantly I manage to.I also am in no way trying to rack up as many comments as possible or take anyone's crown...I merely get a great kick out of struggling to learn this language and love CPod and the community here.I have tried to listen to the not too infrequent critisism sent my way and have made a concerted effort to cut down on 胡说 and also post more in Chinese on the boards it is appropriate to do that and try to stay more relevent.This year I hope to keep it more relevant still,but perhaps I'm incurable and am destined to upset others.Where's CPod rehab [and can I still get online there?].Anyhow,sorry Hape and all others I have yet again let down.I'll don my sackcloth and ashes now [wow ,thanks tal...my education continues..great reference mate] :)

It's here.

I haven't read about this new system. Where was it mentioned, and why will it stop you posting?

No one will take changye's crown.In fact when the new system comes [though I don't know the details yet] that recognises positive posts,I think his ranking will shoot through the roof and be even more out there in a league of it's own and I think there will be a reshuffling of so called contenders.Well at least I for one will no doubt drop off the radar.对我的老婆和我的老板是同一，呵呵。

But what about the contender's boss or missus? (Perhaps they are one and the same.)

Actually, as I've mentioned the gray space, near the top of the Community Page is the "Latest Study Activity". What purpose does that serve? It seems like a waste of space to me.

Hi go_manly

My boss would be very happy to hear that.

The post is about how CP forum participation and diversity could be improved.

hmm,the plot thickens but my powers of deduction fail me.I give up then.Who was this whole post aimed at then?

I won't tell your boss, and I value your contributions very much.

Good point.

Okiedoke.

please allow even me a pinch of irony...

hape, I don't recall claiming to be a VFP.

I don't have the time to read all 275 posts.

I will go back learning Chinese now.

hehe,that narrows it down to 2.I'm sure it must be the other guy. :)

Well hape did you go and read through that discussion? You wouldn't want us to repeat things here we've already said there would you?

Ridiculous as it will be, I don't mind being part of an experiment if CPod wants to try this, in which we are all limited to say a maximum of 15 comments per week (yes I know that sounds like still too many to most of you). At least then we still have the control and freedom of when to comment, until we reach our limit! I'm quite serious.

沉默是金 chénmòshìjīn or "Talk is silver, silence is golden".

_tal, your profile shows only 113 pages of comments, that doesn't qualify you as VFP.

:-)

I think the threading is working, if it was meant to so fragment the flow and confuse people that they no longer feel like solving the puzzle of where and what to post.

Oh sure, 'can't be overstated'! Carry on whingeing mate, and pretty soon that feeling of domination will just fade away.

I just read your comment, Mike, and I absolutely agree. I don't think that this issue can overstated. On the bright side, is it my imagination, or does there seem to have been less of this sort of domination within the actual lesson discussions themselves over the last month or so ? Or is that just wishful thinking ?

Mike I think your concern will be at least partially addressed by the threading. We'll see I guess.

Well said!

try a hose on the horse ;-)

The discussion is about how CP forum participation and diversity can be improved.

So the discussion, basically is about value for money?

Thx for your answer I understand it better now.

@chanelle77 - What is it that I am looking for? I am here since April 2006. At that time nearly everything was free, and I used CP heavily. The forum was open to everybody, even the lesson threads. That has changed because nearly everything now is paid content. I am here to discuss all aspects of the Chinese language and language learning. And in the future I may become a CP subscriber. Who knows?

Apparently you cannot answer the question? I think it is a good question, but it is nice if you would share what it is that you are looking for. I really would like to understand better what that is, without creating negativity :-)

Not being a subscriber I seem not be "qualified" to raise such questions - apparantly.

Please do not get me wrong and do not want to be rude or anything, but why spend time here? You are happy with your other study material obviously, you think can have better value elsewhere and you do not like the community as it is a lot?!

I just wonder, what exactly are you looking for (here)/ want and I mean this in the nicest way possible! :-)

zhenlijiang, I have the feeling you would like to see the forum restricted to CP customers only...

Yes I'd seen that post hape, and had found it off-putting.

My reasons being a "non-customer": see this post, plus CPod is too expensive IMHO - there so much cheaper or even free material on the web, no need to subscribe. I also like to learn from several sources...

I thought so, that's why I gave you the link.

Sorry, I didn't know that this topic been discussed "to death" already.